Fuel for the caliber flame wars
And old one but worth noting:
Remarkably, Palmer had taken 22 hits from Soulis’ .40-caliber Glock, 17 of which had hit center mass. Despite the fact that the weapon had been loaded with Ranger SXTs—considered by many to be one of the best man-stoppers available—Palmer lived for more than four minutes after the last shot was fired. His autopsy revealed nothing more than a small amount of alcohol in his bloodstream.
Four minutes is a long time when you’re fighting.
October 6th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Jesus – this guy must be a highlander
October 6th, 2009 at 9:10 am
They don’t call it a failure drill for nothing.
Makes ya wanna carry 40mm HE doesn’t it?
October 6th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Two very important lessons:
Some folks take an awful lot of killin’.
Some days you get the bear, and some days the bear gets you.
October 6th, 2009 at 11:06 am
FLAMEON!
.575 minie ball, is the way to go! A step backwards is a step forwards!
FLAMEOFF!
October 6th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
“… Palmer had taken 22 hits from Soulis’ .40-caliber Glock, 17 …”???
I’m pretty sure the G17 is 9mm and not 40S&W.
October 6th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Sorry. It was a G22. Misread the excerpt. My bad.
October 6th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
One reason this is quoted is that it’s so atypical.
It CAN happen, but it usually doesn’t.
October 6th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I pushed the button before noting that if the officer had been using a 1911 .45, he would have needed only one shot. 😉
October 6th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
One of the comments there:
“Would a 45 have been more effective?”
That’s a question that need never come up. So why does it? Go with the .45 to begin with and then you can spend the aftermath doing other things besides questioning your choice of chamberings. The .45 frees up time for you like that.
Where’s my .55 ACP? The US Congress took it away from me and they won’t give it back because it’s a house of freedom-stealing thieves!
October 6th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Chas, to hold you over until we kick the NFA in the teeth there’s the .50 GI!
http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/model1_50gi.shtml
They make .50 cal 1911s, as well as uppers for the .45 and 10mm Glocks!
October 6th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Long ago I was taught the first two go center mass, check target for movement. If the target is still threatening the next two go in the groin area, hoping for arterial damage and or shattering joints or pelvis sufficiently the target can no longer sustain its own weight. This can also potentialy defeat body armor. After that the next two at the head as severing the spinal cord will be an instant stop or solid hit to the brain should drop the target reasonably quickly. Besides, if the first two don’t stop the target it’s gotten close enough a head shot is almost practical.
October 6th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
If you read the details, the event isn’t quite that dramatic. It wasn’t 22 hits then 4 minutes, it was 22 hits over 4 minutes. We know that 15 of the hits were in the last seconds of the gunfight, after the attacker was likely incapacitated, and of the earlier hits at least two were through glass. The real mystery is the remaining 5 “quality” CoM hits the officer story states were aimed for a bobbing head. Um… the facts are being stretched past their elastic limit.
It makes a great argument for magazine capacity, though.
October 6th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Actually, according to the excerpt Uncle quoted, it WAS 22 hits then 4 minutes.
October 6th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
The caliber argument is really irrelevant in this case. Keep shooting until the threat is neutralized!
In reality, the only way to immediately or almost immediately disable someone is to shoot them in the hypothalamus, or lower rear part of the brain. This controls the central nervous system and damaging it will have immediate results. That said, the only way to be sure to hit it is shoot through the eyes or mouth.
October 6th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Failure to neutralize drills are well known. If the first two do not stop the threat, then either a CNS shot or pelvis shot is indicated. To keep shooting where you know it does not work is to Winchester your gun (as was done.)
Yes, it’s better to have than not need (magazine capacity), and it’s better to shoot strait than to rely on magazine capacity, but it’s best to notice the indicators and take preventive action before the need to use deadly force.
Forewarned is forearmed.