ATF to announce shotgun ruling Monday
Today, the ATF announced at the 2011 SHOT Show that a new ruling would be issued on Monday, January 24, 2011, regarding the importability of certain shotguns. ATF informed the audience at the ATF Townhall meeting that they wanted to ensure that they were properly and justly enforcing the requirements of a shotgun being for a “sporting purpose.”
This is definitely concerning given the huge demand for certain shotguns like the Saiga platform, which has seen a noticeable increase in demand. While ATF would not comment on which shotguns will be named in this ruling, I would not be surprised to hear that the Saiga is going to be mentioned in the ruling, given the large capacity magazines and feeding devices that are now available.
Inquiry sad no DD ruling. Curious.
January 20th, 2011 at 5:08 pm
I got mine. Go get yours.
January 20th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
Sporting purpose? Where is that found in the 2nd Amendment? I’ll have to go research that some more…..
January 20th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
I think “sporting purpose” is originally found in Nazi gun control laws.
My guns are NOT primarily for sporting purposes, but for persuading or forcing those bent on criminality and tyranny to cease and desist.
January 20th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
by Richard Stevens
JPFO Firearms Sentinel Editor
(JPFO–Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership)
This “sporting use” strategy was used before. The Nazi Weapons Law (18 March 1938) forbade importation of weapons under substantially the same test. Section 25(1) of that Law proclaimed: “It is forbidden to manufacture … and to import: Firearms which fold-down, break-down, are collapsible, or are speedily dismantled — beyond the common limits of hunting and sporting activities — …” Section 21 of the Nazi Law (and its enforcing regulations) employed the “sporting use” exception also where they permitted licensed persons to carry “firearms, designed for — and usually used for — the hunting of fair game.”
January 20th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
Well, I got two so I’m good.
In seriousness, I wouldn’t be that surprised to see it go to court. It’ll fail, though, because the judiciary gives extremely wide latitude to the executive in matters of foreign trade. I think it will eventually come down to, you have the right to bear arms; you do not have the right to bear (acquire) foreign-made arms.
The domestic Saiga shotgun production industry is in its infancy, but it’ll grow in the absence of foreign competition. People know how great the guns are, demand will be there.
January 20th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
So the ATF will start cracking down on home defense guns as well?
God, I swear the ATF really doesn’t follow any logic.
January 20th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
The Federal Governemnt has NO “delegated powers” for wha the ATF does. It is thus operating illegally, should be disbanded and its agents re-assigned to the Border Patrol and given full authority to “protect the States against invasion” (Article IV, Section 4, U.S. Constitution)
January 20th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
ATF = unconstitutional douchetards.
I don’t remember a clause in the 2nd amendment that says “shall not be infringed- EXCEPT FOR SHIT THAT COMES FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY.?”
January 20th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
The commerce argument here is actually a pretty good one and the courts would be correct in upholding the executive’s decision.
Given the size of the American firearms industry, it’s hard to say that your right to keep and bear arms is being infringed. Are Americans able to buy working, modern firearms at reasonable prices? Yes, whether or not there are any foreign guns available. Saying that this potential restriction is infringing is like saying that it’s unconstitutional for a manufacturer to sell a gun at a price you can’t afford.
As a reminder, the Constitution doesn’t just protect the things you like and prevent the things you don’t. There’s some crossover. If you want to prevent the ATF from doing this kind of thing, your remedy is with the legislature, not the judiciary.
And, that said, I think the Firearms Freedom Act various states are trying to implement is absolutely constitutional and should be upheld.
January 20th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
BOHICA !!!!!
January 21st, 2011 at 1:48 am
Wasn’t David Codrea talking recently on his blog about ATF kicking around a ruling reclassifying all pistol-grip shotguns as AOWs even if they made the 18″/26″ minimum length standard?
And Boge Quinn just posted over at RugerForum that ATF has put the kibosh on the 28-gauge Taurus Raging Judge revolver and a planned .410 version of Rossi’s Ranch Hand (Mare’s Leg-style levergun), at least for now.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1061928#1061928
I’m wondering if all the cool toys (Mare’s Legs, pistol versions of AR15s, and the like) are suddenly going to be administratively regulated right out of existence, with the stroke of a bureaucrat’s pen…
January 21st, 2011 at 2:55 am
ATLien,
The Second Amendment does not protect your from a dumbassed protectionist Congress that authorizes the Executive to ban the import of goods you want. It’s just an extreme form of the very same thing a tariff tax does.
On the other hand, that doesn’t apply to guns built HERE. . .
Which is one reason 922(r) (Hack! Spit!) is written the way it is. And why so many European gun companies have US branch factories.
January 21st, 2011 at 3:51 am
Remember that the Gun Control Act began as an act of protectionism on behalf of the old line gunmakers – Winchester, Remington, S&W, Colt – whose lunch was being eaten by cheap imported war surplus and foreign manufacture firearms in the ’50s and ’60s. When one views this (assuming this is what it seems to be) through the lens of history, it not only makes sense but appears inevitable. The Saiga was wrecking the market for the overpriced, underfeatured shotguns being made domestically, and so, it had to be stopped.
January 21st, 2011 at 7:18 am
Markie Marxist sez: “My commie compadre, Paul Helmke, calls for a ban on military-style firearms, while my Marxist amigos at ATF enforce a “sporting purpose” requirement, while the Second Amendment is about military weapons. Once we get gun owners down to hunting weapons, we can ban guns completely, since the Second Amendment isn’t about duck hunting. Pretty neat strategy, huh? We get gun owners coming and going! Ha! Ha! All your guns will belong to us!”
January 21st, 2011 at 7:36 am
“Given the size of the American firearms industry, it’s hard to say that your right to keep and bear arms is being infringed.”
Infringement, however slight, is unconstitutional infringement, and the size of the firearms industry is irrelevant to that taking place or being wrong.
“Saying that this potential restriction is infringing is like saying that it’s unconstitutional for a manufacturer to sell a gun at a price you can’t afford.”
You’re mingling the government with the private sector, and that’s anti-capitalist, commie talk. The government may not engage in unconstitutional infringement by banning firearms, while the free market is free to charge whatever it wants for a firearm. I can ask $150,000 for my beat up Ruger 10/22 if that’s what it’s worth to me. The Second Amendment is a broad and strict limit on government, and no limit at all on the free market.
January 21st, 2011 at 10:54 am
The Saigas have been skating on thin bureaucratic ice ice for a long time. Only the hen’s-tooth scarcity of large-capacity magazines kept them from joining the USAS-12 on the “Destructive Device” list. (Remember, every shotgun bigger than a .410 is technically a DD…)
It’s awful hard for the ATF to allow the importation and sale of Saigas with a straight face while keeping the USAS-12 on the no-go list.
January 21st, 2011 at 2:06 pm
Here’s your work-around: The Remington 1187. Fit it with a tactical stock and foregrip, an extended magazine tube, and you have semi-auto 12-ga spew available in up to 7 (or is it more?) rounds. If that number of rounds isn’t enough, jog Kel-Tec to get their KSG 14-rounder pump gun going sooner.
Another possibility is to work on a speedloader system for your 1187. It should be possible to build one, using the same sort of plans that are available for speedloading the leverguns.
January 22nd, 2011 at 10:30 pm
A speedloader for a tube… versus a detachable box-magazine…
I’ll stick with my Saiga, kthx.