Rob Pincus reads the gun blogs
And he and I agree on something: we prefer 9mm to 40.
As some smart guy said once (from memory, cannot find the post): 30% more cost and recoil for 10% more performance.
Remember, I do this to entertain me, not you.
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September 15th, 2011 at 9:25 am
The St Paul Police (where I live) recently made the change from .40 Glocks to 9mm Glocks or M&Ps.
I know I shoot a nine better than a 40, and I think they found out that’s true for their officers, as well as giving up next to nothing on wound ballistics with today’s ammo.
Matt
St Paul
September 15th, 2011 at 9:26 am
Yes, I do… sometimes.
I appreciate you posting a link to the Article!
-RJP
September 15th, 2011 at 9:41 am
I have to say, I’m pretty tired of people (some of whom don’t own a gun) telling me my M9 won’t take down an intruder. Funny, when I ask them to participate in a little experiment, they laugh and go away.
September 15th, 2011 at 9:45 am
I think just about everyone has realized this. At the last few gun shows i’ve been to, attendees have been trying to offload .40’s to switch to 9mm. I distinctly remember a few months ago that everyone I ran in to with a Glock for sale were selling G23s.
September 15th, 2011 at 10:01 am
It’s probably more a function of ammo costs than anything else, Wiz.
September 15th, 2011 at 10:18 am
Another overlooked factor in fire-power when debating the 9mm vs the .40S&W or the .45ACP is magazine capacity.
I will readily admit that if you compare two full-size or two compact size guns… the 40S&W has more “fire-power”/energy/etc. than the 9mm on a per cartridge basis… but how about the firepower of a magazine before reloading…
Considering that studies of police shootings show an average of about 30% of rounds fired hitting their intended targets and about 55% of civilian shootings rounds doing the same… I’ll take my chances with 20 rounds of 9mm over 14 rounds of 40S&W or 9 rounds of .45ACP
As I tell my NRA/CCW students in Ohio, a .22LR hitting target is better than a .45ACP missing the target – yes, recoil and being able to control the firearm are critical considerations… and no… I’m not advocating for .22LR as a defensive round… but Rule #1 of Gunfighting: Have a gun!
Dann in Ohio
September 15th, 2011 at 10:33 am
I can’t even mention .40 Cal around Drake. He scoffs, mumbles something about “Forty Short and Weak”, then pulls 4 bubbles from the whisky bottle.
September 15th, 2011 at 10:53 am
Really the energy differences between 9×19 and .45 is nothing more than Academic, and .40 S&W is between those two. Meanwhile I have shot similar guns in all three calibers and the .40 Has the sharpest recoil and the most muzzle flip.
9×19 is probably the best defensive handgun caliber out there…tho I’m a fan of the heavier bullets of .45 personally.
September 15th, 2011 at 11:16 am
Another factor: Lots of Single Stack 9mms for sale in the last couple of years for CCW use like the Ruger LC9. How many Single Stack .40 S+Ws are on the Market? Personally, my next Upgrade is going to a 9mm.
September 15th, 2011 at 11:34 am
I carried a .40 G23 from ’93 to… ’01? Used to spout Marshall & Sanow’s OSS numbers like they were some kind of gospel, too.
I think I sold my last .40 in ’04. Haven’t missed ’em a bit.
Anybody who maintains that there’s any real difference in the performance of service-grade JHPs in any of the service calibers (apart from some barrier issues; auto body/glass stuff…) hasn’t been keeping up with the data.
September 15th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
I don’t think you’d wanna get shot with any one of them, but if I’m an LEO stopping a bad guy at night and he shoots at me as I approach the car and I have to return fire through glass, that auto body/glass stuff probably becomes really important really quickly, and is reason enough alone to be glad your dept dumped the 9mm.
Am I more accurate with 9mm? Maybe marginally so. But on a man sized target at common engagement ranges? Not enough to make a difference, and if I am hitting the target I can’t see any reason to not take the harder hitting round.
September 15th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Just do most of your practice with a .22 version and a 9mm, then shoot the .40 now and then.
That way you reduce your cost and still get a bit more power in the carry gun.
And of course, reload and stop buying all that very expensive factory stuff.
September 15th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
As a rank amateur always striving for improvement I have decided the 9mm is “my round” after trying a friend’s 40’s and 45’s and deciding there was too much recoil for me to effectively control. I know it’s not considered manly to fess up to that but my primary consideration is effective rounds downrange. My XDm is ideal for me. I enjoy shooting other calibers up and down but the 9mm is my carry round.
September 15th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
“Your purpose is not to kill the bad guy, it’s to stop the threat. Target center of mass and shoot until he goes down, then stop.”
“Nothing says intent to kill like a head shot, except maybe the round or two you fire after he’s down. You do that, you get tried for murder.”
That’s from my recent CHL renewal class. Note the shoot till he drops. For me that means four to seven rounds of 9mm JHP as quickly as possible, as close to center of mass as possible. I can’t fire a .40 or .45 (or a .357) that fast.
September 15th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
I own .45’s and 9mm’s. Even have some 9mm magnums (357 magnums).
I like the bigger hole and the extra momentum that .45 provide, which is why I carry it over any of my 9mm’s.
I always wonder why no one seems to talk about momentum. It’s certainly an issue that bears mentioning. Just watch the difference between shooting steel plates with 9mm and .45.
September 15th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
Steel plates aren’t likely to attack me while I’m walking the dog.
September 15th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
And?
We don’t get attacked by ballistic gelatin either, yet we sure pay attention to gelatin tests.
In fact, it’s the primary way we study the terminal effects of modern projectiles, from which we know that modern 9mm, .40, and .45 projectiles tend to penetrate and expand in very similar ways.
One might say observed data is a handy thing.
September 15th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Nah.
Them’s just [spit] anecdotes.
September 15th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Meh. Don’t confuse me with facts. I picked my .40 because I liked it.
September 15th, 2011 at 10:07 pm
I remember the discussion from 20 years ago. A coworker was waxing eloquent on his new wonder 9, I told him my .44 Desert Eagle may only hold 8+1 but my total energy budget was significantly higher than his 15+1, and if the Bad Guy was still coming after taking 9 rounds of 240 JHP at 1400fps he could have the damn gun.
Now days I am quite comfortable with a 9mm loaded with 147gr defensive rounds.
September 16th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Whatever you carry, you should definitely be practicing with THAT caliber if you want to develop your skill for multiple shot strings of fire. Dry fire, laser trainers, .22 conversions and the like can be good for a lot of things…but you’ve got to train your shooting skills in context.
September 16th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
@TomcatTCH: wizardpc’s reply might have seemed smart-assed, but in reality it is right on the money. A steel plate will not be penetrated (much) by a handgun round; the round partially smashes into it (losing some energy and momentum as the lead deforms), partially bounces off of it in a way that is a bit reminiscent of billiards balls bouncing around a table. In other words, it has some properties of what is known in physics as an elastic collision. The bullet bounces off in some direction, and the steel plate bounces in another direction. The bullet is certainly not absorbed completely into the steel plate.
A bullet passing through a soft, penetrable substance does not exhibit those same behaviors. The energy is dissipated as the bullet passes through the tissue. In many cases, the bullet remains embedded in the soft substance, creating a perfectly inelastic collision.
So, in short, human bodies do not transfer or react to momentum in the same way that steel plates do.