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August 9th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
The ex-marines crawl out to shriek idiocy about the 1911.
August 9th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
Somebody screwed up bigtime on this; my first thought would bad heat-treatment
August 9th, 2012 at 10:20 pm
12k seems like a lot, probably more than anyone on this blog has ever shot in their lives or will.
August 9th, 2012 at 10:37 pm
12k is not that much – take a look at some of the round counts that Todd Green has run up on guns at pistol-training.com. He has taken the HK45 to 50,000+, M&P9 to 60,000+, G17 to 70,000+, and the HK P30 to 90,000+. He is currently testing a Springfield 9mm 1911
August 10th, 2012 at 12:45 am
So the first run had a metalurgy mistake.
Hold the PSH until we hear if these were all of the same ‘batch’ or not.
August 10th, 2012 at 9:16 am
12k is 120 100 round blocks.
If you take the gun to the range and shoot 100 rounds every other week you’ll get to that in under 5 years.
Now sure, most people don’t shoot that much, but 100 every other week and having a gun for over 5 years isn’t that unheard of either.
August 10th, 2012 at 9:34 am
Shoulda gone with S&W (with APEX) or a Glock… stop putzing around with these 100 year old designs.
August 10th, 2012 at 10:49 am
You know, former Marine Corps General Keyes is running Colt nowadays. So that might be why a COLT 1911 was picked by the Corps over other .45ACP Pistols.
But having said that, I think Gen. Keyes is “Taking Names” back in the Company, and will rectify these FUBARS.
But it really doesn’t matter what the Corps buys, as long as “Big Army” keeps ordering Berettas in the Hundreds of Thousands. And every time someone tries to get a .45ACP Pistol into the hands of the Army, the Program gets killed off.
After all, God Forbid we tell NATO to Stuff their “Ammo Commonality” Specs.
August 10th, 2012 at 11:08 am
Tarrou, I know you did not just say EX-marines. Please former or prior service.
Now, as to the firearms, 12k rds is very low for that many failures. I agree that it sounds like a bad metal batch, hopefully it will be fixed.
Heck I’ve got a glock g17 that has had close to 80,000rds through it & the only parts I have replaced are a slide stop lever and the guiderod/spring assembly.
The gun is older than some of my customers(bought it in ’90) more than 60k of those rds were in the first 2 years I owned it.
Granted, it’s not as accurate as a well modded 1911, yet, as others have said, it goes boom everytime I pull the trigger.
Of course other brands have track records as good as my glock, so YMMV.
August 10th, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Jack, these are not for civilians, these are military pistols. When I was in, we routinely shot 3-5k rounds per day during train-up. It’s also routine to “hotbox” a small number of pistols for qualification and the like. 12k rounds isn’t even a solid week of training for a pistols slide life. These guns get abused like catholic schoolchildren. A gun like this will never make it to deployment. Completely and utterly unacceptable.
August 10th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
I don’t know why you went that route when Jerry Sandusky and Pedo State are still so fresh.
August 10th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
What tarrou said.
one meu workup will put more than 12k rounds on the guns. Oddly, we had several.45s that had 1950s serials. Everything else had been replaced but the heavy parts still worked.
August 10th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
3-5k pistol rounds per day, per man? Unless you’re just round dumping that seems a little… unbelievable. And incredibly wasteful, since just blasting 3000+ rounds a day over and over is not useful from a training standpoint. Sounds like an awesome way to develop repetitive stress injuries, too.
Anyway, I’d be curious if they followed the proper spring replacement schedule during this test. If not, I am not at all surprised the guns battered themselves to death. But who knows? The post is pretty short on useful information. Those pictures mean nothing without context.
And, I’m another person who shoots a fair amount. Lots of people shoot more than me, but if I actually made it to the range for every scheduled live fire pistol training day (once a week, 250-300 rounds centerfire) I’d shoot around 14,000 rounds per year in just 9mm and 45. Add another 2500 or so for carbine training and ungodly amounts of 22, plus the relatively small amount of ammo I put through my bolt guns… it adds up.
I shoot enough that I break guns with some regularity, which is exactly why I switched from 1911s to Glocks. I love the 1911, but I reached a point where the required maintenance was seriously hindering my training program, and I just couldn’t justify sticking with them anymore. Someday when I have more time and money I might play with 1911s again, but for now, I just want my guns to work when I get to the range.
August 10th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
This is the 21st Century.
12,000 rounds between failures doesn’t cut it these days.
I mean hell, even a Jennings .22 would last about 5k rounds before the pot metal started working loose.
I like the 1911 … but if you intend to use it as a racegun, you must budget the high maint costs. Cop shops and the DoD should not be paying for that.
August 10th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Can’t speak for current spec, but M-9 and M-11 were to have a lifetime of 5000 rounds before armorer repair.
3-5K of rounds per day is much more than 5th Group gets during work up with a rifle much less pistol ammo. Good for you if the ammo fairly was that kind.
I’m not a 5th Group allumni but have run them through quals on our range.
August 10th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Its called failing to make the frame out of S7 tool steel..
August 11th, 2012 at 9:17 am
I’ve run around 15,000 rounds through my S&W1911. Helps that it was my first gun so when I went to the range it was the gun I brought. Now things get thinned out because now I spread my rounds out between more guns. It isn’t an unreasonable number.
We were discussing this, and why the Marines didn’t go with a modern polymer gun rather than the old and dated (but still nice) M1911….given that every major weapon change in the military has involved multi-million dollar trials (that are rife with corruption and political interests) It was probably easier jut to update the M1911 pistol and call it good.
I wonder if they’re getting THAT much use in the field. I mean I carry my 1911 because I hope I’ll NEVER have to shoot it…if I think I’m going to have to shoot somebody I’m carrying a damn rifle!
August 11th, 2012 at 11:29 am
It has to be a bad batch. My aluminum framed , frame made in Brazil , lower end Springfield has had that many rounds through it in the nine years I’ve had it.
August 11th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
Weer’d: I think Michael Bane said it best … “When the Army issues Phasers to its soldiers, the Marines will insist on using the M1911”.