ATF bans 7N6 5.45X39 ammo
They’ve reviewed it and noted it has a steal core. And since this company makes a pistol that shoots the ammo, the cannot be imported. So, if someone were to make a 7.62x54R pistol, I guess that ammo would be illegal. Even if the pistol wasn’t popular.
April 8th, 2014 at 6:56 pm
I recall seeing a video of some guy that built a 7.62×54 pistol on a PSL receiver. It goes boom.
April 8th, 2014 at 9:53 pm
Exactly what they did with steel core 7.62×39 because Olympic Arms made a AR pistol in 7.62×39. http://ak47talk.blogspot.com/2012/01/545×39-not-in-pistols.html
Any chance we can fight it this time, we are a lot stronger than in the mid 1990s? They declared steel core 5.56mm M855 to be never counted as pistol ammo, which I think they should do with 7N6.
April 9th, 2014 at 1:37 am
Better yet would be to ban the banning of gun related items, i.e. enforce the second amendment by punishing the violators. I don’t want to get into technical or other fine point arguments when in fact there is no government authority to ban stuff that’s related, even at the “fringe”, to the right to keep and bear arms. This nit-picking crap is just a distraction designed to put us off point and accept illegal encroachments upon human rights.
If anti gun politicians aren’t living in fear, staying awake at night worrying about getting arrested and jailed, we’re not getting the job done.
April 9th, 2014 at 4:57 am
In a logical world the ATF would give them us the still unfair choice of No 5.45 pistol or no 5.45 ammo. Yes unfair but still a choice.
All this will do is cause the demand for 5.45 to go up and result in other companies rising to meet that demand. Like Wolf. I suspect the ammo will be initially the price of 556 then drop a bit to an equilibrium between 7n6 and 556 as more competition steps up.
April 9th, 2014 at 12:19 pm
This is EXACTLY what happened with 7.62x39mm steel core ammo:
ATF told the industry that, the instant a pistol was chambered in this caliber, they were going to have to check the ammo against the statutory definition of “ammo piercing ammunition” because it would, by definition, now be ammunition for a handgun.
A commercially available pistol in that caliber was created. (In fact, with 7.62x39mm, ATF even went to the manufacturer who was PLANNING on introducing an AK pistol in 7.62x39mm and told him, “Dude, as soon as you OFFER one for sale, we’re gonna shut down the Chinese milsurp ammo spigot. DON’T DO THIS.” Other members of teh industry ALSO told the manufacturer the same thing, and pleaded with them not to introduce the pistol. IIRC, the very first commercially transferred 7.62x39mm AK pistol, triggering the Chinese ammo ban, was transferred to. . . Dick Metcalf.)
7n6 ammo has a steel core, and one of the statutory definitions of “armor piercing ammunition” is “a projectile or _projectile_core_ which _may_be_used_in_a_handgun_ and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, _steel_, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium”. Nor was it _intended_ for use _primarily_ for “sporting purposes” (which would have allowed the Attorney Generl – HA! – to exempt it. 7n6 is a milspec service load _intended_ for combat.
ATF simply applied the statutory rule that Congress created. The really didn’t have any discretion in the matter. Once in a great while, they are only doing their jobs the way they are supposed to. (Bad laws aren’t THEIR fault – blame Congress.)
Just as M855 IS NOT “armor piercing” under the statutory definition — the core is not entirely steel – it has a steel penetrator, but the core isn’t all steel, there’s lead, too. (in fact, more lead than steel, by both volume and weight.) http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/585213_M855_Bullets_and_Their_Construction.html
.30-06 M2 AP isn’t “armor piercing” under the law, for the same reason — the core isn’t all steel; there’s a lead componant as well (albeit smaller by proportion than M855, and in front of, rather than behind, the penetrator.) http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2012/01/30-06-m2-armor-piercing-bullets.html
April 9th, 2014 at 12:30 pm
See how we’re getting all upset and obsessed over technical details and definitions while ignoring the basic principles? Bingo! THAT’S how it’s done, People.
April 9th, 2014 at 12:35 pm
Lyle — but the problem ISN’T at ATF this time. ATF is actually just doing their job and following the law.
The problem is the law.
April 9th, 2014 at 2:31 pm
This is an example of “enforcing the laws already on the books” that so many of our people keep insisting on. The Firearms Coalition was founded in 1984 specifically to fight this stupid law and to bring to people’s attention that NRA was actively working with the opposition on “acceptable” language (while telling their members they were opposing it). Don’t blame manufacturers for building rifle-caliber pistols. Blame short-sighted “leadership” for buying into bad laws. This won’t stop with the importation ban, and it won’t end with this chambering. I expect ATF to get more aggressive about enforcement of this bad law over the next couple of years. Thanks Wayne.
April 9th, 2014 at 7:09 pm
So when is a .50 BMG pistol coming out?
As for AP ammo, I just use the Dillinger method. If I think they have armour I just go high or low.
April 11th, 2014 at 6:44 pm
I rarely shoot my Mosin carbine because of the fireball and noise caused by Hungarian surplus ammo from 1983. I still have about half of the giant sardine can purchased 8 years ago.
I would like to see video of that ammo shot out of a shorter barrel, just to watch the eyebrows of the shooter go up in smoke.
April 13th, 2014 at 10:49 am
Considering that that pistol isn’t mfg’d in the US and can’t be imported, I do believe that (as usual) the batfass are reaching.
April 13th, 2014 at 10:52 am
Interesting – just went over to the linked website. Site doesn’t show any “pistol” that uses that ammo.