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The Shameless 17

Granted, it is a degree of partisan bickering (you did it! Well, you did it more), but JYB alerts us to 17 officials who were told of the prison abuse before 60 Minutes 2 broke the story.

I guess the calls for resignation from the left will be forthcoming? Nah.

Update: Oh, and Rummy even came out with it publicly in January. Here’s a press release from U.S. Central Command (scroll down).

Just a partisan witch hunt.

And where was the media in January? I guess without shocking photos, they have no story.

17 Responses to “The Shameless 17”

  1. tgirsch Says:

    Oh, wow, man, they did a press release! I suppose that absolves them from all responsibility for what happened, then, eh?

    Clearly this was not even on their radar until the press took off and ran with the pictures. And even now, nobody of any standing has even been reprimanded, much less punished in any meaningful way. Yeah, the Administration is really concerned about this, all right.

    As far as I’m concerned, any attempt to characterize outrage over prisoner abuse and torture at American hands as “partisan” is disgusting. There’s no other way to put it.

  2. SayUncle Says:

    Tom, my ass. I am not attempting to characterize outrage over prisoner abuse and torture at American hands as “partisan”, I am characterizing the bogus calls for rummy to resign as “partisan”.

    And it is.

    Where’s your outrage and call for the 17 to resign/be held accountable? After all, it’s not partisan, is it?

    And it wasn’t on the radar until there were pictures. And, without those pictures, it never would have been.

  3. tgirsch Says:

    Actually, as I think about it, you are right, in an odd way. There is definitely partisanship involved, but it’s not that “the left” is calling for accountability. It’s that “the right” isn’t. There’s the partisanship.

  4. kevin Says:

    “And it is.”

    Oh bullshit. Rummy created the concept of prisiners outside the constraints of military or international law, was hands on in designing the rules for handling prisioners, and was told about this months before he did anything The repsonsibility is his, if responsibility is to have any meaning whatsoever.

  5. tgirsch Says:

    Uncle:

    You’re equating apples and oranges. People who were made obliquely aware of “abuse” (the press release in monumentally vague) are to lose their jobs because they weren’t more active in investigating the story, but the people whose responsibility it is to command the troops and ensure there is order are to get a free pass? Come on! That’s rather like asking Dennis Hastert to resign because Clinton got a blowjob.

  6. tgirsch Says:

    I wonder, in your mind, at what point it would be acceptable for Democrats to ask for a Republican’s resignation?

  7. kevin Says:

    From the Army Times:

    Myers, Rumsfeld and their staffs failed to recognize the impact the scandal would have not only in the United States, but around the world.

    If their staffs failed to alert Myers and Rumsfeld, shame on them. But shame, too, on the chairman and secretary, who failed to inform even President Bush.

    He was left to learn of the explosive scandal from media reports instead of from his own military leaders.

    On the battlefield, Myers’ and Rumsfeld’s errors would be called a lack of situational awareness — a failure that amounts to professional negligence.

    To date, the Army has moved to court-martial the six soldiers suspected of abusing Iraqi detainees and has reprimanded six others.

    Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, who commanded the MP brigade that ran Abu Ghraib, has received a letter of admonishment and also faces possible disciplinary action.

    That’s good, but not good enough.

    This was not just a failure of leadership at the local command level. This was a failure that ran straight to the top. Accountability here is essential — even if that means relieving top leaders from duty in a time of war.

  8. tgirsch Says:

    So much for cries for resignation only coming from “the left,” eh, Kevin?

  9. SayUncle Says:

    As it stands now, i am reserving judgment on the issue of rummy’s involvement. It’s not enough to warrant forced resignation, imo. That said, we still don’t know all the facts (even the smoking girl who points at iraqi penises is saying she was ordered to be in those pics because it degrades iraqi men to be photoed with women).

    Instead of focusing on rummy, someone needs to get down to who the hell is giving the orders. Someone either gave the orders or let this stuff slide. And it should be their ass. I doubt it’s rummy.

    If you want to know when his resignation should be asked for, when it’s proven he was involved or covered up. Did he shirk his duties? To an extent. Is he responsible, the evidence thus far says no.

  10. Justin Says:

    Does anyone really think a general called up Rummy and said “Hey Rummy, we are gonna stick a bullwhip up some Iraqis ass and take Maplethorpe esque pictures of the guy…is that ok with you?”

    Rummy created the concept of (sic) prisiners outside the constraints of military or international law, was hands on in designing the rules for handling prisioners,…

    You really think the head of the defense department sat down and did a play book on prisoners in Iraq?

    Accountable for not telling Bush or giving him a heads up? Yes. Guilty for the idiots who are boots on the ground? nope.

  11. skb Says:

    Actually, according to testimony yesterday Rumsfeld personally signed off on each “coersive” interrogation at Gitmo. So he knows the procedures and which parameters require his approval. There was testimony that these same procedures were used as “guidelines” for developing the Iraq interrogation procedures, but that Rumsfeld was not personally involved in approving any extraordinary methods, but rather Gen. Sanchez was given this authority.

  12. skb Says:

    (So, yes, there is a playbook, and yes, military commanders call up the Pentagon and say “I want to stick a hot poker up this guy’s ass, OK?”)

  13. Drake Says:

    After the beheading yesterday I could not care less about the poor abused Iraqis. F them.

  14. SayUncle Says:

    skb, that’s pretty frightening but I tend to doubt Rummy realized/authorized sanchez’s troops to do what was going on there.

  15. tgirsch Says:

    Uncle:
    I tend to doubt Rummy realized/authorized sanchez’s troops to do what was going on there.

    He may not have specifically authorized those exact measures, but he’s still accountable for what his reports did, especially if they asked for permission to use vaguely expressed “extreme methods” without asking for clarification.

  16. SayUncle Says:

    tom if he’s investigating it, that is being accoutable.

  17. tgirsch Says:

    I find it less than satisfying to know that Rumsfeld is “investigating” claims of abuse for which he may personally be partly, if indirectly, responsible. An independent investigation would be preferable.

Remember, I do this to entertain me, not you.

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