John Kerry: Sportsman
[John Kerry] was in Wisconsin the other day, pretending to be a regular guy, and was asked what kind of hunting he preferred. “I’d have to say deer,” said the senator. “I go out with my trusty 12-gauge double-barrel, crawl around on my stomach… That’s hunting.”
So, what’s wrong with that quote?
Update: Kynn sets us straight in comments. Kerry was apparently Dowdified as the full quote is:
After his successful round of trapshooting Saturday (Kerry hit 17 of 25 targets), Kerry told a reporter he would rather have been hunting.
He was asked in the interview Sunday what kind of hunting he preferred.
“Probably I’d have to say deer. It’s tough, depending on where you are,” said Kerry.
“I go out with my trusty 12-gauge double-barrel, crawl around on my stomach. I track and move and decoy and play games and try to outsmart them. You know, you kind of play the wind. That’s hunting,” said Kerry, whose manner was relaxed as he spoke on the final day of an excursion along the scenic upper Mississippi that he seemed to take some relish in.
As Kynn says:
There’s nothing in the original version to indicate that Kerry’s quotes were said in direct succession (nothing to say they weren’t either), but he clearly didn’t make the statements as portrayed in the edited version, which appears to flow cleanly between “hunting deer” and “crawling on the ground.”
In particular, the phrase It’s tough, depending on where you are can be seen as Kerry saying, “It’s difficult to find a place where you can hunt deer, because they’re not always around” – so likely he means that he hunts other things.
His reference to “that’s hunting” has to be read in light of the fact that he’d just been trapshooting. He wasn’t saying “hunting deer with a shotgun on my belly, that’s hunting” – he was saying “going out and stalking prey instead of blasting clay pigeons, THAT’S hunting.”
I concur.
July 27th, 2004 at 2:23 pm
Maybe he meant deer squirrels — they’re very rare.
July 27th, 2004 at 2:52 pm
My dad hunted everything with a 12 ga. They used slugs for deer. Don’t know about the crawling around on his stomach part, though.
July 27th, 2004 at 3:03 pm
I’ve never heard of any deer hunters doing the low crawl.
July 27th, 2004 at 3:06 pm
The shotgun, i could excuse if it was all he said as i know many slug hunters. The crawling around part leads me to believe he also doesn’t get the shotgun part. Plus, do they make a rifled double-barrel for slugs? I’ve not seen one.
July 27th, 2004 at 3:18 pm
I think the slugs are rifled. I seem to recall them being pretty hard on the barrel.
July 27th, 2004 at 3:28 pm
Yeah, i think that’s why you get rifled barrels. But then i’m not a shotgun guy.
July 27th, 2004 at 3:39 pm
Maybe the crawling part is when he’s hunting his car keys.
July 27th, 2004 at 3:47 pm
I know, I know!
It’s that they left out a lot of the quote.
Here’s the full thing:
To help out, I’ve highlighted the quotes that have been dropped.
There’s nothing in the original version to indicate that Kerry’s quotes were said in direct succession (nothing to say they weren’t either), but he clearly didn’t make the statements as portrayed in the edited version, which appears to flow cleanly between “hunting deer” and “crawling on the ground.”
In particular, the phrase It’s tough, depending on where you are can be seen as Kerry saying, “It’s difficult to find a place where you can hunt deer, because they’re not always around” — so likely he means that he hunts other things.
His reference to “that’s hunting” has to be read in light of the fact that he’d just been trapshooting. He wasn’t saying “hunting deer with a shotgun on my belly, that’s hunting” — he was saying “going out and stalking prey instead of blasting clay pigeons, THAT’S hunting.”
–Kynn
July 27th, 2004 at 3:59 pm
I have a deer barrel for my shotgun. What makes it a deer gun? First of all it’s cylinder bore (no choke), meaning the barrel doesn’t taper. Most shotgun barrels are choked to increase the pattern density. That’s fine when you’re firing shot. For hunting deer you use solid slugs (which are like very large bullets – 12 gauge works out to 0.72 caliber or so). You can’t shoot slugs through a choked barrel.
The other thing that makes it a deer barrel is that it has rifle sights. Most shotguns just have a simple bead on the front. The spread of the shot pattern makes absolute accuracy unimportant, and the simple sight lines up fast when shooting birds in flight.
You typically only see rifle sights for guns that are set up for deer or turkey. (Unlike other birds, turkeys aren’t shot on the wing, and you have to put a lot of lead on target to kill them because of their size.)
Could Kerry have a double-barreled deer rifle with cylinder bore and rifle sights? I won’t say with 100% certainty that it’s impossible, but I suspect Kerry’s full of it. As Otto von Bismarck said, “People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war, or before an election.” Kerry’s two for three.
July 27th, 2004 at 5:23 pm
people have been using double barrels with either slugs or buckshot (ever wonder why they call it buckshot?) for over 100 years.
As for crawling through the woods – it’s plausible & on occassion necessary.
You don’t need a rifled barrel with iron sights to shoot slugs or buckshot effectively at deer. You just need to know your range limitations & get cloe – usually within 30 to 50 yards for slugs & under 30 for buckshot.
& you can shoot slugs through a choked barrel. I wouldn’t do it with a full choke or perhaps not even an improved modified, but skeet through modified can be done with the right types of slugs. & while rifling helps accuracy out a bit, people have been running slugs through smoothbores for quite some time. It limits the practical range a bit but it doesn’t harm the barrel.
So I don’t necessarily find his statement unreasonable on its face. What I do find unreasonable is him crawling through the woods on his belly to get close enough to a deer (after stalking it) to put a slug or a load of buckshot into its vitals.
& also I find it unreasonable that he tries to diminish his love for gun control by making an appeal to the hunters & Fuddites.
July 27th, 2004 at 8:50 pm
I wonder what PETA has to say about all this?
July 27th, 2004 at 9:22 pm
Pub: not even a rifled barrel – mine isn’t rifled. Rifled slugs will take care of that (though a rifled barrel is better). I have to disagree about the sights, though. Good luck hitting anything at 50 yards with a bead front sight and a slug.
July 28th, 2004 at 2:38 am
Thibodeaux:
PETA doesn’t like hunting, so I am sure they’re appalled by this.
–Kynn
July 28th, 2004 at 12:00 pm
Right….but which candidate (if any) does PETA support?
July 28th, 2004 at 12:23 pm
Thib:
I believe (but am not sure) PeTA is a non-profit, which prohibits them from endorsing or opposing anyone.
If they did support a candidate, it would likely be Nader, though…
July 28th, 2004 at 12:47 pm
Yeah, I figure Nader would be their man.
July 29th, 2004 at 7:26 pm
It looks like some people do shoot slugs from double-barreled guns. This guy says he shot his first two deer that way. Range was less than 25 yards.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94010
So I guess it’s possible that Senator Botox is telling the truth. (I know. As unlikely as that seems.)
August 19th, 2004 at 1:17 pm
“…people have been using double barrels with either slugs or buckshot… ”
Um…at least in Minnesota, ‘buckshot’ is illegal for hunting deer. You must use only single projectile ammunition.
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/hunting/biggame.pdf
I’m not sure where the name came from, but buckshot would not be very effective on a deer and not very humane.
Regardles of how John Kerry likes to kill animals (or at least act manly talking about it), the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It’s there to allow US citizens to support the Constitution and continue to protect themselves from an oppressive government. To remain “citizens” rather than “subjects”. Without the 2nd Amendment to back it up, the rest of the Bill of Rights is all just words on paper.
John Kerry may like shooting and hunting, but he shows very unsafe gun handling. He would likely get his a** kicked in our deer camp and never be invited back if he waved the gun around with his finger on the trigger like he does at those staged shotgun events.
Much more importantly, regardless of his campaign rhetoric, his votes regarding gun control show that he does NOT support the 2nd Amendment.
By the way, I’ll be deer hunting with a rifle based on the AK-47 this fall. Much more effective (and legal for hunting when used with a 5-round magazine) than a double-barrel shotgun. For those of you who will freak out about the “evil AK-47”, it’s not really different than any other rifle. The AK-47 actually shoots a less powerful round than a typical hunting rifle, so I will have to stalk and get close to the deer – although it’s unlikely I’ll get close to deer by crawling on my belly.
September 12th, 2004 at 10:11 pm
Though I choose a 30-30 Win., and prefer a standing broadside shot @ 75 yd. , after a couple days in our neck of the woods, (N/W PA.) it is NOT unusual to find me, my son, or any one of my hunting buddies bangin through Redbrush or Briar thickets trying to kick Whitetails out of their beds. And YES, on occasion , even on our bellies. We’ll be casting our our bullets from battery leadsoon enough if they keep shippin our jobs overseas. Bush lied.. Bin Laden was in Afghanistan!!
October 1st, 2004 at 8:42 pm
Kerry is a not a hunter, he’s not a sportsman and he hates guns and those of us that own guns. He pretends to be a hunter on TV and if he had his way he will have all our guns and ban hunting all together. John Kerry is just another liberal wennie that puts his finger in the air to see witch way the wind is blowing before he opens his mouth.
October 11th, 2004 at 10:58 am
Just a guess, but it sounds like Kerry was talking about goose hunting in the sentence he was referencing “decoys and crawling on his belly.” I have killed a lot of deer and killed a lot of geese. My first dozen or so deer and hundred or so geese were all killed with a double barrel, “side-by-side.” I have decoyed deer and crawled on my belly on occassion with long bow, recurve, compound, side-by-side, pump, and semi-auto shotguns; and rifles. It is typical of the right-wing neo-con press to omit parts of Kerry’s speech to make him appear foolish. This tactic says more about them, than it does the man. They are idealogues. Since when have they believed in the truth? Their ends justify their means. What do you expect from a hog but a grunt?
October 22nd, 2004 at 1:41 pm
Here’s PETA’s official stance on John Kerry’s recent hunting trip in Ohio. It’s a TOTAL copout in my opinion:
Thank you for contacting PETA about political candidates who engage in
blood sports. Please understand that PETA certainly opposes any activity
which causes intentional harm to animals, including hunting and fishing.
As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, educational organization, PETA is prohibited
from participating in any political campaigns or endorsing a particular
candidate or party. However, we encourage you to contact the candidate
or party that you are interested in directly; ask the party
representatives for their position on animal rights, and tell the
candidate that animal rights issues will influence your vote.
To learn a candidate’s position on a comprehensive list of issues,
including animal protection, please contact Project Vote Smart at
1-888-VOTE-SMART or http://www.vote-smart.org (be sure to include the
hyphen).
PETA’s “Guide to Letter-Writing” (http://www.peta.org/alert/guide.html)
offers helpful tips for writing to elected officials.
To learn more about ways to combat cruelty to animals as “sport,” please
see the following sites:
http://www.FishingHurts.com
http://www.AnimalActivist.com/wildlife.asp
http://www.Fund.org
Thanks again for writing and for everything you do for animals!
Sincerely,
The PETA Staff
http://www.peta.org