War is Hell
By now, you’ve no doubt heard the story of the marine who shot a wounded and unarmed Iraqi. On the surface, it seems the marine did something that was wrong. However, it is a common tactic among insurgents to feign injury and attack soldiers when they approach to offer aid. Did the marine mess up? Probably. Can I blame him? Probably not. I say that having not watched the video.
November 16th, 2004 at 10:06 am
Back in the civilian world, we would call that “better to be tried by 12 than carried out by 6”
Kid most likely will face several violations of the UCMJ…but I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same. Back in Bosnia there were instances where those ethnic cleansing a-holes tried similiar dirty tricks.
November 16th, 2004 at 12:09 pm
I am perfectly clear on one aspect of it; whatever network decided to release that video straight to public rather than sending it through military channels for investigation should be shit-canned. No ifs, ands or buts. All embedded reporters for that network should be deported. If it was NBC (and I think it was) then MSNBC needs to go with them. We don’t need vigilante embedded reporters.
November 16th, 2004 at 12:20 pm
I thought the whole point of the embedded newsies was to get unfiltered footage. As long as you’re not giving away secrets, why shouldn’t the news get out?
November 16th, 2004 at 1:33 pm
I can’t blame the media for releasing the video. It was news. It happened. As long as it was edited, with faces blocked out and a warning before it was shown.
I think this Marine was in the wrong, but there clearly seemed to be some extenuating circumstances. He was apparently shot and wounded the day before. Apparently this same group of Marines had witnessed a booby-trapped dead militant.
He seemed to be very worried this guy was just playing possum… however, that’s probably not reason enough to shoot him in the head.
November 16th, 2004 at 1:55 pm
Just out of curiosity, wasn’t Kerry awarded a Silver Star for a similar act, ie killing a wounded fleeing enemy combatant?
There are rules in war, the most important of which is to come back from the mission alive. When your enemy has resorted to tactics like booby trapping bodies, etc, then you have no choice but to make sure every combatant is dead.
Otherwise you die.
This kid will get crucified because most folks aren’t willing to accept that hard reality.
November 16th, 2004 at 1:56 pm
The problem I have with it is the complete lack of context in which the media is playing this. And, I might add, where is the equal time given to the murderous tendencies of the terrorists who kept and beheaded hostages, fire from mosques, and play dead which is exactly what the Marine had in mind.
November 16th, 2004 at 2:17 pm
Marine was correct. There was no “prisoner” which is a title at MSNBC.
This is why reporters or video should not be uncensored.
In the context of the situation there is nothing even to discuss.
But the media, hating the war and the military and loving contreversy play it up like its some crime when it obviously isn’t.
Remember, not that it matters, these ‘insurgents’ are not wearing military uniforms making them guerillas.
November 16th, 2004 at 2:29 pm
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Same holds for Abu Ghraib. Its these kinds of acts that help groups like Al Qaeda recruit.
November 16th, 2004 at 2:43 pm
Hell, it seems much more likely that this would make some asshat think twice before joining up with Al-Qaeda. Those cowards are pretty damn brave with women, children, and hostages…they appear to die quite well enough when faced with a real opponent.
November 16th, 2004 at 3:16 pm
Darn it, why can’t the Marines just be NICER?
November 16th, 2004 at 3:52 pm
This dialog always comes up after some controversial shooting. That Marine wants to go home, and he had a good reason to believe that terrorist didn’t want him to. It’s like the, “why didn’t he just shoot him in the hand/leg/arm” argument. It’s simple – the Corps doesn’t train Marines to shoot to wound. This isn’t a police operation, it’s war.
November 16th, 2004 at 6:54 pm
I haven’t seen the vidio, but what I’ve been reading about the event, the Marine in question had a duty and a moral obligation to kill that insurgent if he thought he was a danger to himself or his comrades. Any enemy combatant not under your physical control is a fair target! So it is not a matter of two wrongs making a right.
It is not the same as having four or five of your buddies hold him down while you saw off his head.
As to Abu Ghraib, from what I’ve seen of that scandal, worse things are done at Fraternity initiations.
As the liberal are fond of saying, “If it saves just one life it is worth it.”
Dewight
November 16th, 2004 at 6:55 pm
Manish, I agree that two wrongs don’t make a right, but I don’t believe for a minute that this sort of thing helps al Qaeda recruit. They had no trouble recruiting prior to 9-11, so what makes you think they’ll do better with a slogan like “join up, and maybe you’ll get murdered by a U.S. Marine?”
November 16th, 2004 at 8:05 pm
How about before when the big AQ recruiting drive was, “Sign up and get captured and get humiliated by women?”
I always wondered if there was a reason those prison photos were leaked.
November 16th, 2004 at 8:13 pm
X..every time American troops are seen to commit atrocities, it helps them recruit more people than if no atrocity had been committed or reported. They would receive a steady stream of people anyway, but events like Abu Ghraib and this incident increases the flow. More people means more potential damage. Its a question of enraging people to join the cause.
In the same way, post 9/11 we saw a surge in military recruitments here. Why? Because we say a horific wrong commited upon us.
Dewight..did this guy treat it like a fraternity hazing?
November 16th, 2004 at 9:15 pm
Manish, I ain’t going to feel sorry for somebody who thinks the “worst insult [is] to feel like a woman.”
November 16th, 2004 at 10:05 pm
Thib..are you going to feel sorry for the soldiers he attempts to kill because of what was done to him?
November 16th, 2004 at 11:43 pm
I can’t blame the soldier. Iraq is a clusterfuck. This shit is happening all over the place. Stress, confusion, anger.
We’re lucky he didn’t shoot the reporter.
I can’t really blame the reporter either. This is news. The reporter didn’t enlist. If the military didn’t want these images out there, then they shouldn’t have arranged for embeds.
Let ’em make mistakes and learn from them. They thought the embedded reporters would be a PR plus (I think they still are a net plus). They took a risk. Live with it.
November 16th, 2004 at 11:47 pm
I don’t believe for a minute that this sort of thing helps al Qaeda recruit. They had no trouble recruiting prior to 9-11, so what makes you think they’ll do better with a slogan like “join up, and maybe you’ll get murdered by a U.S. Marine?”
That won’t be the message. The message will be “your brother was just defending his homeland against infidel invaders, and they shot him when he was unarmed. Avenge your brother!”
Revenge trumps self-preservation in populations that have nothing to live for. They figure at least they’ll be rewarded in the afterlife.
November 17th, 2004 at 12:49 am
In the context of this Marine’s personal experiences, it would be difficult to ruin him for this.
Wounded himself the day before, he saw 5 men in his unit wounded and one killed tending to a Iraqi who blew himself up. Reports are that this has gone on frequently enough that the Marines are reacting to it.
This isn’t the first time this has happened in war and it won’t be the last. This is war to the knife. Personally, I think the Marine needs a rest, not a court. 35 years ago we learned to bounce the bodies…just in case. Keep the f’ing videotapes out of combat.
November 17th, 2004 at 1:19 am
Cops here shoot people whom they percieve to be a threat, and the perception is a nearly perfect defense.
Besides:
“The members of the Corps
all hate the thought of war.
They’d rather kill them off
by peaceful means….”
Tom Leher
November 17th, 2004 at 9:08 am
Manish: two wrongs don’t make a right. That applies to Arab bigots as much as it does to US Marines.
November 17th, 2004 at 3:07 pm
“He seemed to be very worried this guy was just playing possum… however, that’s probably not reason enough to shoot him in the head. ”
hey the insurgent shot frist, he just lost.
Man i hate poor losers.