Been wanting one for a while
A mouse gun, that is. I do like Kel-Tec P3AT as does Chris. Anyone else familiar with them enough to recommend one?
18 Responses to “Been wanting one for a while”
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December 8th, 2005 at 1:09 pm
Take a look at this thread. The final version of the chart is this. You can see a modified version of it with “ghost hands” here.
There are a number of pretty small guns that chamber 40S&W or 9mm: Kahrs, Glocks, Kel-tec, even the CZ75B compact. These are, of course, bigger than mouse guns. They do not disappear in the pocket of blue jeans but are small enough to easily be slid into a coat poclet or rest comfortably in a deep-concealment holster all day.
As for mouse guns, I have a Kel-tec P3AT. It’s trigger is acceptible right out of the box. I have heard stories of very bad triggers that shaped up nicely with some work. I used to have a NAA Guardian in 32ACP. It had a relatively good trigger, albeit with a looooong pull. I sold it to buy the P3AT. The Kel-tec chambers a better defensive round, is lighter, thinner, and only slightly longer. NAAs are also relatively expensive.
December 8th, 2005 at 1:16 pm
Santa will be bringing a Kel-Tec P3AT and this pocket holster. I will set out a glass of 18 year old Scotch for the jolly man.
http://gunnersalley.zoovy.com/product/FISTK5KYDEX
December 8th, 2005 at 2:07 pm
Ben, thanks. Good info.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:06 pm
I have never shot the .380, but the Kel-Tek 9mm is highly accurate for its size. I would assume that the .380 would do well also. I am yet to find a better gun for the dollar in a .380 than the Bursa for its construction and accuracy.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
I’ve got the P-11… and I’m not impressed. Now, from my research, I’ve seen that there’s good ones, and bad ones, and apparently, I got a bad one. Just never get the time to send it back (I broke it trying to break it in).
It jammed on *everything* I tried to feed it. So I fluffed, and buffed, and used every single lube I could find – and after days and days of buffing, using dri-slide seemed to work, and I got 4 magazines of hardball through it, no jams. Put in 2 of JHP, and on the 2nd round of the 2nd mag, the trigger bar broke.
It also shoot – at 7 yards, about 2 feet low (when it fired). Lifetime warrenty, which is a plus (we’ll see how they do when I get a round tuit and send it off and I get it back), but I’ve put almost 1000 rounds through it, and it broke…. I’m going to get it fixed, and it might be the backup gun, but I’ve got to tell you, honestly, I’ll have a hard time trusting it for a primary. As a result, I changed plans, and got a Glock 30. π
I’ve shot the little .32 that a friend has, and it jammed on me once in about 3 mags, she says she usually sees one per mag. But the size of that and the kel-tec “round the neck” holster might overcome some of my reticicence about the P-11 experience.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:32 pm
Oh, the .40 cal version of the P-11.. Local gun shop said he sold 5 of them. 4 of which were returned to the factory for work within 2 months of sale. (The 5th he thinks hasn’t been shot yet).
Which is why he said the .40 is out of production – just hammers the gun too much. I can see why, it *is* a nifty design, don’t get me wrong, but I think even the 9 is too much for the P-11. (I know you were asking about the .380/.32, but it’s also proportionally smaller.
December 8th, 2005 at 7:42 pm
RE: mouse gun. I’ve got a 3AT and carry it a lot, occasionally by itself, usually as a backup to the primary carry gun (H&K USP .45). When I got the 3AT I scrubbed it clean, oiled it, and tried a variety pack of ammo through it – Remington, Winchester, Federal,Cor-Bon, reloads, etc. Never got a misfeed, stovepipe or jam. The regular load is the Cor-Bon 90 grain. I was expecting a lot of recoil from it, but it’s a dream with all the loads I tried. I was also surprised at the accuracy. I was able to keep all shots inside the C ring on an IPSC silhouette at 25 yards, over half in the A ring. A target gun it’s not, and I have difficulty imagining using it at 25 yards, but that test told me it’s suitable, for accuracy if not power, for head shots against dogs (I carry it all the time when jogging).
Three suggestions: first, a small piece of masking tape over the muzzle to keep the pocket lint out of the barrel. I drop it in my pocket a lot, and it’s an issue. Second, get and carry a loaded spare magazine. They’re cheap, light, and without a functioning magazine it’s a single shot. Third, devise some personal notification system to remind yourself that you’re carrying it. The 3AT is so light and unobtrusive you’ll forget you have it in your pocket and, depending on the laws in your state, that could sometimes be “inconvenient.”
December 8th, 2005 at 7:50 pm
My brother got one, and I was prepared to dislike it. Then I shot it, and fell in love. I got one for myself, and remain very pleased.
Be aware that there are two flavors out there, the old version and the new one. The new one is better, IMO. The old one has a large external extractor held on with an allen-head screw, and a smaller front sight.
December 8th, 2005 at 8:49 pm
Thanks for the info, all. Addison, I have the G30 but it’s hard to stuff in a pocket when wearing khakis and a polo shirt.
December 8th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
Uncle:
Ah, getcha a CTAC. π
That’s the biggest surprise to me, was how well the CTAC works… Had I known that, I might just have ordered one for my USP, instead of getting the Glock.
http://comp-tac.com/ct_centerline.html is what looks really interesting for the P3AT…
December 9th, 2005 at 1:12 am
“Thanks for the info, all. Addison, I have the G30 but its hard to stuff in a pocket when wearing khakis and a polo shirt. ”
I can do that with my j-frame S&W Model 360.
And that’s a .357 Magnum…
December 9th, 2005 at 3:12 am
I’ve had the P32 for several years, and in all the shooting I’ve done with it, had only 1 single malfunction. (It was a biggie, however: failure to extract, which meant trying to hold the slide back while simultaneously trying to pry the casing out by the rim using the screwdriver blade my my swiss army knife.)
Certainly I’ve heard enough stories about KelTec problems, but mine has been flawless enough that I’m not remotely interested in trading it in on a P3AT–that will have to wait when I can just buy it outright.
I have shot a P3AT once, and was pleased at how close in size it was to the smaller .32 and how the additional recoil was no big deal.
December 9th, 2005 at 5:27 am
I’ve been asking the very same question – I want a backup for the wife. A friend has a Sig P232, and it is quite a handful to shoot. From everything I’ve seen on the net, I am looking at the Bersa .380 – with the steel frame NOT the alloy frame – which should run about $200. Not quite as small as the Kel Tec, but apparently very much more reliable.
I’ve looked at the Kahrs (too expensive) the Sigs (too heavy/large/expensive) the kel-tecs (unreliable), Walthers (hmmm……) and makarovs – which could be an alternative, but a little harder on the hand when shooting….
December 9th, 2005 at 9:41 am
I have a P32, which has had frequent rimlock problems due to the semi-rimmed .32 case but no other problems. I’d think the P3AT with the rimless case should be good. The flat shape and light weight of the P32 make a huge difference from say, the Beretta Tomcat (which I also had and which had even more rimlock problems).
My P32 will feed Fiocchi 71 gr FMJ-RN reliably, but no other ammo I’ve tested, with or without a magazine spacer. In the low-penetration .32 I like the FMJ best anyway.
December 9th, 2005 at 10:16 am
Check this out…
I have to tell you, that swiss mini-gun is a charmer.
http://www.smallestguns.com/
December 9th, 2005 at 10:28 am
Sheepdog has one, I fired it a few times.
With KelTecs he has told me you have to tinker a bit, polish this, sand that, maybe send it in for some work.
But you end up with a reliable, inexpensive, life saver that you can drop in your sjorts pocket.
December 9th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
The only “mouse gun” I’ve got is a 1908 Vest Pocket Colt. It was manufactured in 1921 and shoots .25 ACP like a champ. It was a gift and had belonged to one of my aunts. There is no telling how long it has been in the family.
It shoots okay for a peashooter, but I’d never carry it for defense because you can’t really keep one in the chamber. (If you saw the design, you’d understand the safety concerns.)
It’s old and has got a lot of character, but I’ve seen them selling for as little as $250.
December 10th, 2005 at 2:06 pm
I have a p32 and I cannot praise it enough. I have sent well over 500 orunds downrange and never had a singlr issue. I have the clipdraw and it sits on mywaistband like a dream.
I have always been a firm beliver that the best carry gun is the one you will carry.
A gun in the truck does not do much good.
all of that being said, I have not yet shot the AT.