NSA and Gun Records
I just heard from a friend who had a frightening story to tell. Turns out he has a friend who works for the NSA. Apparently, the NSA has been getting the records of gun buyers from the FBI. I guess the program works like this…
Person enters gun shop,
Person files background check paperwork,
Gunshop sends background check info to government,
[snip]
So when the goverment gets the info, they have the phone number and other personal information and they do the background check.
All this information is sent to the NSA to be added to the database with phone records and other information you provided for the background check.
This program will allow the NSA to identify potential terrorists and to know what type of weapons they may have purchased through legal channels. Ultimately it doesn’t matter if they use an alias because the NSA tracks phone numbers and addresses to find the terrorist patterns.
It comes from Kos so take with a huge grain of salt. Let me say unequivocally that this not any sort of confirmation nor proof of any such activity and I see no convincing evidence that this is taking place. But I’ll also say that this sort of activity would not surprise me in the least if it did happen.
May 17th, 2006 at 9:39 am
That was 5 excellent posts ago.
Geeze, I’d hate to see you on a good day.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:13 am
I wouldn’t put it past nosy bureaucrats to do this, but unless things have changed significantly since the last time I bought a gun it wouldn’t work very well in Utah, at least for CCW permittees.
The InstaCheck for permittees is done by the State BCI, and the gun dealer only checks if the permit is valid. AFAIK, no specific information about the firearm is given to the BCI, only the permit number and name of the person. So I guess Big Brother would know you’ve bought a gun, but they wouldn’t know what type unless the ATFE went copied it from the 4473.
I call bull on this. There might be some states that do it, but I think it would be too full of holes to be much use as a de facto gun registry.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
It is entirely untrue.
Every person involved would be committing a federal felony; and there would have to be enough people involved that it WOULD leak.
May 17th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
I don’t recall a place for my telephone number being on any part of any of the forms I fill out when I purchase a firearm.
May 17th, 2006 at 7:51 pm
Hmmm …. what makes anyone thnk they need your phone number? They require your social, and their database is surely powerful enough to link it with existing records. Also, given that the BATF has in fact gone aorund and “inspected” dealer records, and required any dealer who goes out of business to forward those records to the bureau, why woulod you believe that they DON’T already know what firearms we bought?
May 17th, 2006 at 7:53 pm
Right. My office mate at UT left to go work for “a government agency in Fort Meade, Maryland.” Hell, I knew what was up when the background interviews started. Those guys wouldn’t tell you what the job was; they didn’t know either. I saw him over Christmas and he said it was a freaky place where you only know people by their first names. If Gunner’s friend knows about the program then he is running or involved in the program because everything is compartmentalized and discussing your work with coworkers is expressly forbidden. They are not even allowed to socialize outside the workplace.
May 17th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
I almost forgot …. every ( new ) firearms has serial numbers engraved. Those numbers are recorded on the purchase forms. Once again, their databse can link manufacturer / import records with those numbers, then your number, and “ain’t nothing private anymore”.
May 18th, 2006 at 12:03 am
The 4473 does not ask for your phone number.
“Every person involved would be committing a federal felony…”
Uh, same with every legislator who has supported every gun law. That’s been “leaked” since 1934, and Congress’ underhanded run around the Constitution, but no one seems to be getting punished for it. It’s no big deal.
Then again, there is this little gem. All we need is the right AG to get it enforced. Read and smile;
http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000241—-000-.html
May 18th, 2006 at 12:08 am
Seems the link doesn’t work. Here’s the text;
18 USC 241
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or
If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.