This just in: cops need guns
A ranger is catching some flak for carrying an AR-15:
Lisa Schutzberger pulled one on a wanted felon holed up at a campsite in Oregon. She slung another over her shoulder before confronting a mob of unruly paint-ballers in Idaho.
Now, as one of only two rangers in charge of maintaining law and order on the 4.3 million acres in the Bureau of Land Management’s Twin Falls district, Schutzberger said she is glad the BLM issues her a weapon — a highly accurate semiautomatic AR-15 rifle.
The agency began outfitting rangers with the semiautomatic rifles a few years ago. Rangers, the agency said, are no different from police officers; they just patrol a much larger beat.
[snip]
Some in southern Idaho, however, have begun questioning why bureau rangers need the AR-15 rifles after Schutzberger’s gun went missing in May.
Now, I have zero issue with arming the police with rifles. I take issue with her intimidating paint-ballers with it and, of course, with the fact that she lost the gun.
July 11th, 2006 at 11:39 am
I generally don’t have a problem with police having AR-15, or rangers carrying one around. I think every patrol car should have one, in fact. The only caveat to that is I should be allowed to own anything the police can.
July 11th, 2006 at 12:24 pm
I’ve been out in that area, and believe me, it’s remote. As in, it’s several hours to any civilization. If I were her I’d carry one, too.
But I have a real problem with her attitude.
July 11th, 2006 at 12:28 pm
I take issue with her intimidating paint-ballers with it
There was one of her, and how many of them? I don’t have a problem here. Just because they were paint-ballers doesn’t mean they were harmless children.
Now as for losing her weapon? Baaaaaaad on her, bad bad bad.
July 11th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
I’m not sure I support the idea of a ranger carrying such a weapon. With the wide open spaces in southern Idaho, and all the various hazards, I think I’d want an M-14. A smaller framed ranger might want a smaller, lighter package however– Springfield “Scout”.
I agree that I should be able to carry anything the police can carry, as long as I can afford it. We need a law that says so. Oh wait, we have one. It’s called the Second Amendment. Now I suppose we are faced with making a law that says the Second Amendment must be fully enforced. What a pickle!
July 11th, 2006 at 2:49 pm
There was one of her, and how many of them? I don’t have a problem here. Just because they were paint-ballers doesn’t mean they were harmless children.
The question is, what kind of paint-ballers would shoot an LEO armed with a pistol? And if they were bad enough to require a semi-auto rifle for protection, why would she just “sling it over her shoulder”? Why not hold it at the ready? Come to think of it, why even confront them if she knew them to be that big of a threat?
Reason: She wanted to “show them who’s boss”, even if it wasn’t justified. In fact, it probably wasn’t justified, or else she wouldn’t have confronted them in that manner. She would have prudently kept her distance or gone for help.
Now as for losing her weapon? Baaaaaaad on her, bad bad bad.
Agreed. When I was in the Marines, the absolute WORST thing you could do (besides punching a superior) was lose your rifle. G-d save your soul if you ever did.
Although from the story it appears that it was stolen from her vehicle; the article doesn’t say if it was locked or not. If it wasn’t, she should be severely disciplined at the very least, if not fired.
July 11th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
I take issue with her intimidating paint-ballers with it
I don’t quite agree with this. Not all paintballers are friendly kids playing by the rules with permission. A lot of them are suspicious of cops, and most aren’t exactly pro-authority. Being smacked with a paintball (which may or may not be chronied to tourny-legal speeds) without eye protection is not a good thing.
More than that… it’s pretty much a given that a cop will have a gun. I’d prefer they use the threat of a gun, as clearly as possible, than get into a situation where a gun would be needed.
On the other hand, not really a fan of people that can’t keep hold of their weapon. This was, admittedly, a breaking and entering, so most protective measures wouldn’t have been too useful, but it’s a good sign.
July 11th, 2006 at 3:29 pm
Nothing wrong with carrying a rifle if she’s stepping away from her vehicle to deal with a larger group of people. It is remote, backup is non-existent. No big deal.
Losing her rifle, however, is not excuseable.
July 11th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
While I would agree that “losing” the rifle is not a good thing, why should it be considered any worse than losing any other item of similar value?
I think she should pay for the rifle if negligence on her part contributed to the loss and that should be the end of it (unless she has a history of “losing” stuff — then fire her). If she acted reasonably in securing it then let the BLM replace it.
Re: Military emphasis on awareness of where your rifle is is important due to the nature of a Soldier’s or Marine’s use of the rifle. Misplacing a rifle could lead not only to his own death but that of his fellow Soldiers/Marines — maybe even to catashropic losses for a unit. Not a condition that applies to forest rangers.
July 11th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
FWIW, according to TFA she didn’t “lose lose” the rifle. It was stolen out of her patrol car while she was at the ranger station.
You can say that she should have secured it, but then I guess that would also mean it was a good idea to have it slung over her shoulder when talking to the paintballers. Otherwise one of them could have gotten it out of the car while she was talking to the others.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
I think everyone can agree that losing a rifle, or having it stolen due to one’s negligence, is pretty serious. Even BLM rangers should be held accountable for such things. After all, the police generally expect citizens to take extra care of their firearms — sometimes even arresting them for negligent storage — and it’s only fair that they be held to the same standard.
The issue I see here is the overall attitude of the officer. Think about it: You’re in a group of paintballers having fun out in the middle of nowhere (and southeastern Idaho/southwestern Oregon really is the middle of nowhere) and some BLM ranger comes up to you with an AR-15 slung over her shoulder. How would you react?
The more I read the article, the more I think the issue here is not the rifle but the officer herself. I’m quite familiar with the good people of Idaho (my uncle still farms there) and I’m sure the overwhelming majority wouldn’t mind a cop being armed with an AR-15. What they would mind is some authoritarian bitch using it as a prop to intimidate them.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Or, how about this?
You’re in a group of paintballers training up for the impending race war/apocalypse/jihad out in the middle of nowhere (and southeastern Idaho/southwestern Oregon really is the middle of nowhere) and some BLM ranger comes up to you with a 9mm Smith & Wesson on her hip. How would you react?
No one knows the intent/attitude of people they are approaching. She’s OK by me.
July 11th, 2006 at 6:36 pm
No one knows the intent/attitude of people they are approaching. She’s OK by me.
Everyone expects a cop to carry a pistol. Few people expect one to carry an AR-15 unless something big’s going down. When she approaches a group of paintballers with Black Rifle over her shoulder, the message she’s sending is I assume you’re all criminals and I perceive you to be a serious threat. It’s little wonder that most of them would react negatively to that.
I don’t have time to beat this horse any further, but read the article with a skeptical eye. There’s alot of stuff we’re not told in it; I’d be willing to bet this officer has had alot of complaints about her behavior but the BLM didn’t pay any attention until her rifle got stolen. Besides, it would appear that she doesn’t really need an AR-15 anyway; after all, the article states that she sucessfully arrested a convicted felon with her handgun, not her rifle.
July 11th, 2006 at 7:56 pm
Hmmm……I seem to remember someone, somewhere, saying that a handgun was a piece of crap one used to fight their way to a rifle. I’m almost never without a handgun, but there are lots of times I’d really like to have a rifle close at hand as well, which was usually the case when I lived in a very rural area. There were lots of times I automatically grabbed the 30-30 when I stepped out of the truck. Hard to fault someone for wanting the power to project if it was needed.
As for losing it, there’s mention of “stolen from the patrol car.” I would have expected some sort of long gun lock in a .gov-issued vehicle. Could be there was one, just wasn’t used. Without more details, it’s impossible to judge.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:19 am
Holly :
A bunch of kids pointing vaguely gun-like objects around, which, contrary to popular opinion can be powerful enough to injure someone (hence why having a gun chronied down to 300 or less is very important), is something big.
Outlawball like this (since the kids did not, I assume, have permission to play where they were) results in almost all of the paintball-related injuries that do occur. Some include both paintball, reballs, and airsoft, and it’s not unusual to have people get rid of the red tips on airsoft guns.
Again, I’d rather have the kids intimidated by the Ebal Black Rifle than have the oficer get in a position where she felt it necessary to unholster a pistol.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:07 pm
A bunch of kids pointing vaguely gun-like objects around, which, contrary to popular opinion can be powerful enough to injure someone (hence why having a gun chronied down to 300 or less is very important), is something big.
So why didn’t she call for backup? How stupid is it to approach a “mob of unruly painballers” by yourself if you truly believe they will turn their weapons on you? I’m not a cop, but I’ve worked with them during my career and that violates several basic rules, the first of which is don’t become a victim yourself.
Outlawball like this (since the kids did not, I assume, have permission to play where they were) results in almost all of the paintball-related injuries that do occur. Some include both paintball, reballs, and airsoft, and it’s not unusual to have people get rid of the red tips on airsoft guns.
We’re talking public land here, not someone’s backyard. And not just a city park, either, but public land out in the middle of BF nowhere. AFAIK, there is NO restriction on playing paintball on public lands; indeed, most paintballers here in Utah just go to the nearby national forest or out to the BLM lands in the west desert. Considering that it is perfectly legal to go out to BLM lands and blast away all day with your own AR-15, it is quite unlikely that you would be prevented from firing paintball gun.
I will agree that the article is poorly-written and doesn’t give much details. For example, we aren’t told why she felt the need to confront the paintballers, nor are we told if her rifle was locked in her vehicle or left on the seat with the door open. Knowing those facts would possibly change my view towards her and the situation.
FWIW, I don’t have a problem with this ranger, or any other cop, carrying and using an AR-15 as long as they do it responsibly. Similarly, I wouldn’t hold her responsible for having someone break into her locked vehicle and taking a properly-stored AR-15 anymore than I would harass a gun owner over it. But the impression I get from the article is that this particular ranger routinely carries her AR-15 when dealing with paintballers, meaning at the very least she is using it to intimidate persons who are very likely not breaking any laws. And that, to me, is arrogant and disrespectful. It’s no wonder people are complaining about her.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:54 pm
“So why didn’t she call for backup?”
Because she’s “one of only two rangers in charge of maintaining law and order on the 4.3 million acres in the Bureau of Land Management’s Twin Falls district.”
July 12th, 2006 at 3:17 pm
Just a point: She is one of only two federal rangers. There are local sheriff’s deputies in Twin Falls, Gooding, Elmore, and Owyhee counties, as well as Idaho State Police officers who patrol I-84 and US 93 and 95, who would be willing and able to assist if necessary.