“Stand Your Ground”
While we were at the range the other night, TB (“the boyfriend”, for those who aren’t regular readers on my blog) and I saw a news story on the “Stand Your Ground” legislation that passed here in Tennessee.
Jesse writes about it so much more eloquently than I could. He needs some more readers to encourage him to write more frequently, anyway.
The basic premise: if you don’t have a license for your gun, and you shoot someone outside of your home, you are a criminal and are not allowed to say “omgz it was self-defense”. Nor are you allowed to sue an individual who shoots you if you threaten them with your illegally-owned weapon.
This is FABULOUS news. Encourage people to register for their license by telling them that if they don’t, they’re basically screwed. Obviously criminals still aren’t going to register, but more law-abiding citizens might be encouraged by this. I know I am.
And more armed law-abiding citizens? NEVER a bad thing.
Now, if TICS could just start working, we’d be in business. What’s up, TBI? Are you going to fix your damned system this week?
August 15th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
How is it fabulous news that you have to get a permit from the state in order to be allowed to defend yourself?
August 15th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
It’s fabulous that you can’t be sued if you defend yourself against some criminal dork using a stolen gun. It’s fabulous that, since it IS the law to get your permit, more people may see this and be encouraged by it to go take safety classes and learn more about gun laws in Tennessee, and it will be seen as something that anyone can lawfully do, rather than something that only criminals do.
I think SOME regulation is a good thing. If you mess with someone and threaten their life, you’ve just opened yourself up to have YOUR life threatened. The people who are willing to just willy-nilly aim a gun at someone to get their wallet are not the types of people we want to have all the guns. This sort of legislation will make law-abiding citizens less afraid of the consequences of defending themselves (know how many times criminals have sued their victims because they fought back and the criminal ended up getting hurt? a lot).
August 15th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Oh, I like Stand Your Ground laws. What I don’t like are laws that force me to register myself with the state in order to have their permission to protect myself. Rights aren’t something that should be regulated away. The state should stick with punishing people that actually misuse their guns, and stop punishing people with arbitrary hoops because they want to get a gun.
I’m fortunate to live in VA, where no permit is required to open carry at least, so the state can’t just look my name up on a list if they decide to confiscate firearms. I’d be even happier if VA followed the example set by Alaska, and stopped requiring permits for any type of carry.
August 15th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
It’s also fabulous where anyone under the age of twenty-one defends themselves. It’s fabulous for someone who acts in legal self-defense using any other means — say, some means that don’t require permission from a politically-appointed police chief. It’s fabulous for people that take up to or more than the typical 90 days for a CCW reapplication, or who can’t afford an extra 115 bucks after the gun and training.
Hell, your link to the Lone Libertarian sums the thing up : “Those without gun permits, carrying in public (criminals) do not have the right to self-defense.”
If we’re talking about solely lawful self-defense or defense of others, here, it shouldn’t matter how it was done.
If they were packing illegally, apply the law on the books at them. Don’t pass out money to an attempted murdered just because he tried to murder someone that didn’t follow the letter of an administrative law.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
I’m reading the bill now (don’t they know what a return/enter key does?), and the only reference I can find to the part in question here is where they describe where deadly force is NOT authorized:
So, yes, a person who is illegally carrying a gun is engaged in criminal activity, but isn’t there affirmative defense in some cases?
August 15th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Paul Helmke reacted predictably upon hearing of this bill:
August 15th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Paul Helmke reacted predictably upon hearing of this bill:
http://www.phun.org/newspics/funny_friday/2157.jpg
(Sorry got the link incomplete first time)
August 15th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
No, it’s a stupid law and contrary to precedent. For example, if you are driving without a driver’s license and you get into an accident the fact that you did not have a driver’s license is not proof that you were negligent. Likewise, the fact that you did not have a permit or had not registered your gun is irrelevant as to whether you were in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm which is the standard for self-defense.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Sounds a little idiotic to me…with a license I can defend myself with a firearm at my home….but if I don’t have a firearm I better use firewood or Kung-fu?
The states and the feds have fubared gun law and the Bill of Rights beyond recognition.
August 15th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
I don’t know. We pretty much had the legal right to self-defense prior to this bill. I do know that the Tennessee Firearms Association opposed this bill because it wasn’t really any better than current law (at least the law prior to May 22nd).
In FACT, you could use your weapon in self-defense outside of your home even if you DIDN’T have a permit. This was great in the fact that a person who used a firearm in self-defense didn’t have to have the permit. Which…in essence equals more freedom to me. Take for example, when an elderly man in Memphis used his gun to defend himself from a couple of robbers who had made him drive to the bank to try to steal his money. He killed one of the guys in self-defense, and he was completely in the right in the eyes of the law even though he didn’t have a permit.
Does the law change that now? I need to research it myself, but this law really didn’t make any difference to how self-defense legality was handled in Tennessee. In fact, from the sound of it, it might be worse.
Except for maybe some type of legal protection in defending “yourself against some criminal dork using a stolen gun.” (as Squeaky Wheel stated)
But overall…it’s really nothing to be happy about. Just an adjustment to the window dressings with some little changes that probably make it worse.