Campus Carry In Tennessee
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February 15th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
HELL YEAH!!
Now that is what I’m talkin’ about!
February 15th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Now if can be amended to include students who have carry permits it will be really great. After all, outside of Glenn Reynolds, I doubt many college professors have permits (or want one).
February 15th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I think this is a really big can of worms.
Let’s say a tenured professor banned students from his or her class from possessing a gun in a state that allowed such and was subsequently fired or disciplined. You’d never see another quality professor take a job at that school again, and it wouldn’t be about gun rights. What if the Association of American Universities decided that if you are a member university in a state that allows guns in the classroom, then you lose your AAU membership (thereby affecting Vanderbilt)? The loss of that sort of prestige is almost immeasurable and would be within the rights of a certifying and accrediting association to do so. If you possessed a degree from UT, you wouldn’t be able to go to grad school elsewhere, apply for certain jobs, etc. The same thing could happen at any number of regional associations of schools and universities that accredit schools. I am not advocating either way, but just pointing out that people like Campfield, who do not understand the system they are stepping into, are just going to make a HUGE mess. All it takes is large prestigious research universities to say: “Nope. You have guns, therefore you are out of the club.” No grants for you. No grad students for you. No assistant professors for you. If you think that this hasn’t been discussed in professordom, you are wrong. Don’t quote Glenn Reynolds. He’s the exception, remember? Just ask him.
February 15th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Metulj,
did that sort of thing happen during the racial integration of colleges and universities? I ask because I do not know, and it would be the same principle: Your state is doing something we don’t like, so therefore we don’t want to be associated with you. I’m pretty sure it happened with intercollegiate sports, but look how far that got.
February 15th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Another thought: Most colleges and universities have the chartered right to levy fees and tuition. If UT were to simply say “Sure, you can have a gun” but then decided to set a $10000 fee for their campus carry permit, there is little the state could do. They set fees for parking cars (I know that they are not a “right”) and other things (computer connections, access to certain facilities, etc). The state could revoke the charter and try to enforce another one, but that brings back the specter of peer institution perception. Who wants to engage in academic exchange with an institution that doesn’t have the support of the state that funds it? Again, I am not advocating either way. It’s an interesting question: What happens when two utterly different worlds collide? I think that’s the case here with all of the “Let’s allow guns on campus/Guns on campus are the Devil” talk.
February 15th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
WizardPC: That’s a good question. I don’t know. I am just speculating. I will say that a lot of the kids who headed to Mississippi and Arkansas during that period came from elite(r) schools in the East and California often with the blessing and at the behest of the schools themselves. Andrew Goodman went to Queens College (CUNY) and was working out of the Freedom Summer project. That wasn’t an academic thing, but a lot of them got leave from school and the like.
February 15th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
My wife will be returning to school this fall. And while the campus she attends might declare themselves a gun free zone, whatever classroom she is in won’t be.
February 15th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Metulj,
Please be honest. You are advocating and you are assuming.
I know plenty of high quality professors who have no problem with firearms who would happily take that tenured slot.
Can a professor throw me out of class if I am of a certain race, sexual orientation, regligion, physical disability, etc…? Then why should they be able to do so if I choose to carry a firearm? The AAU wants to play games, no problem. The State provides money to all public universities and many private research schools.
February 16th, 2008 at 12:30 am
“I know plenty of high quality professors who have no problem with firearms who would happily take that tenured slot.”
Really? High quality? In a variety of disciplines? Remember what the word “University” means. UT has over 1000 professors. A PhD is a very difficult degree to obtain. Trust me I know. Someone like Reynolds, who does not possess a terminal degree in his field, is one thing, but to get your hands, as a university, on a researcher in a field like particle physics or comparative linguistics is another.
“Can a professor throw me out of class if I am of a certain race, sexual orientation, regligion, physical disability, etc…? ”
No. You are making gun ownership an identity category. Is the politics of gun ownership, identity politics? That’s a vaild question.
“The AAU wants to play games, no problem. The State provides money to all public universities and many private research schools.”
The problem is that if accrediting institutions aren’t allowed to operate (which are private organizations), then how can standards be maintained? Would you want the state creating standards? It is a “what if proposition?” As for research money, that’s a federal matter. I needn’t remind you most state governments are concerned with things like boat ramps and football stadiums. As for me, I get my money from private sources for my research: Fewer entanglements.
And I am not advocating either way. I would never accept a position at a university where this problem is a question.
February 16th, 2008 at 1:25 am
I certainly don’t think metulj is impressing anybody with the high quality of the people he say would practice the exclusionary policies he has said they would. I take him at his word that these discussion have taken place. I just don’t agree that these are people of quality.
At least, they are not the kind of people I would knowingly show respect to. I might be courteous, as that is my nature, but I wouldn’t shake their hands, nor introduce them to anybody I valued nor take anything they said at face value. If those be the type of people whose ostracism of us he is trying to scare us with, I don’t believe it will work. Especially since I have already eliminated them serious consideration as people of consequence.
Some of the most incredibly stupid people I know have whole alphabets after their names. Not a majority of them, but certainly the loudest and most strident.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:28 am
I think so. Seen too many people fired for ownership of them or advocacy of.
February 16th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
“I think so. Seen too many people fired for ownership of them or advocacy of.”
I do think it fascinating that identity politics, which are characterized as degenerate and left wing by the political right, can be found in an issue that is characterized as degenerate and right wing by the political left.
Sorry to not respond more quickly. Early morning pheasant hunt. Got 5.
February 16th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
I think both the left and right do it. It just depends on the particular identity.
Got 5.
Excellent.
February 16th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Excellent
Six shells too. I had to double one I winged. Brought 4 birds home and they are in a wine and mushroom stew right now. Gave the 5th to Duncan The World’s Most Versatile Hunting Dog. It was his last hunt (10 years old) and he’s never got to keep the bird (My brother’s dog; his rules for making a dog that wants to hunt). The one I hit twice wasn’t worth eating, so that’s a nice “Thank You” for being a great hunting dog. He’s being retired to trout fishing and swimming in the ocean duty. We’re looking for another chocolate lab pup with good hunting lines.
Back on topic: Yeah, I think identity politics are ruinous and end up playing the issue at hand through mechanisms that really have nothing to do with it.
February 16th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Never been much of a hunter since a teen (that whole don’t like to kill thing). But I do recall how sad everyone one was when my dad’s and granddad’s dogs were retired. Always ended an era.