I love it
It’s amusing watching the Democrats come undone during the primary. It will only get more amusing. Heck, they’re even rehashing some of the old school Republican criticisms of one another.
Did you know that Hillary is really the one winning? I mean, if you have stupid colored glasses. I, personally, would love to see the super-delegates override the will of the people so I can mock the hypocrisy forever.
Hillsy is even making a push to change the rules. Everywhere, trial lawyers are licking their chops. And I thought McCain was a blow to Republican cohesion but they seem to be coming around.
And guav says that Hillsy is getting ready to swift boat Obama, which is amusing because the only retractions that came from the swift boat story came from Kerry. How can you swift boat a man with no significant legislative accomplishments? Particularly, when you’re a woman with no significant legislative accomplishments?
The Democrats are fielding candidates, who, like Seinfeld, are about nothing.
I’m not a fan of McCain. But at least the man has done something. I mean, not anything particularly great. And come the general, he’ll be bringing that up.
Update: Tom, no doubt furiously googling, notes that I am incorrect in asserting that the only retraction from the Swift Boats came from Kerry. Seems one guy retracted a statement. There you go.
February 21st, 2008 at 1:51 pm
The latest Obama-bot meme to counter the “no experience” argument is that “Obama introduced over 820 pieces of legislation over six years.” No word on how many of those actually passed.
February 21st, 2008 at 1:56 pm
That’s twice you’ve said that, and that’ll make twice that I’ll suggest you check out the SBV’s history (wikipedia is a good start) that shows that’s not true.
February 21st, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Actually, in your defense, you said retractions; the SBV’s didn’t have the sense or decency to offer much in the way of retractions. They were just shown to be hackartists of the worst kind. That sort of politics shouldn’t be commended or kid-gloved. It’s rather vile.
February 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pm
And, like last time, I’ll read it and note there’s no mention of retractions.
February 21st, 2008 at 2:59 pm
I don’t get why there were no retractions from the Swift Boat people is a salient fact. Lots of people who lie never admit that they lied. Whether what they said was true or not (I belive it was not), judging it by whether or not there were retractions seems silly.
And, on the whole ‘no significant legislative accomplishments’, I guess I don’t get that either. He’s got a record. Good or bad, it’s there. It might not be super big headline stuff, but, I think it does point to his point of view, his goals.
Some of his accomplishments (copied from somewhere else, admittedly):
Legislation that was passed and signed:
-sponsored legislation with Russ Feingold to require candidates to disclose all campaign contributions including bundled contributions (previously, campaigns could report an entire bundle without disclosing who contributed to the bundle)
-sponsored legislation with Richard Lugar (a Republican!) to extend what was before called Nunn-Lugar, one of the US’ most important intiatives to halt the spread of Nuclear Weapons. Nunn-Lugar provides assistance for the safe de-commission of nuclear weapons in former Soviet states left over from the Cold War. It also provides funding and incentives for these states to get rid of excess nuclear weapons. Russia for example simply could not afford to abide by the agreement struck between Bush and Putin in late ’01 to cut nuclear arms stockpiles by over 50%. Obama was instrumental in expanding the old Nunn-Lugar program (now the Obama-Lugar program) to include other weapons such as mines.
-He sponsored legislation with Tom Coburn (another Republican!) to create the usaspending.gov site, an easy way for citizens to see exactly how money is spent, how much, and where.
-He was the sole sponsor for legislation to provide relief to the Congo
-along with Chuck Hagel (a republican) he introduced legislation that included a 4-part plan to guard against nuclear terrorism. A slimmed down version including one of those planks passed.
-Together with Kit Bond (hey! another Republican!) he introduced legislation to provide new oversight over psychiatric discharges from the military. The military was allegedly discharging soldiers who had developed post traumatic stress disorders and arguing that those soldiers actually had disorders before enlisting, so they could avoid paying for treatment and actually bill these soldiers to make them give back their signing bonuses
And stuff that didn’t pass:
-he sponsored legislation with John McCain to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 2/3 by 2050
-he sponsored legislation to allow state governments to divest pension funds from Iran. This was opposed by the Bush Administration
February 21st, 2008 at 3:04 pm
sponsoring is not what I’d consider an accomplishment. and how many got passed?
February 21st, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Phoronous is right. Not admitting that you lied is not the same thing as not lying.
But setting that aside, the fact that you, an otherwise intelligent guy, are dumb enough to buy into (and regurgitate) the SBVT bullshit is still amazing to me. Most of the time, you’re above that.
February 21st, 2008 at 3:22 pm
why is that? The SBVT’s were correct that Kerry was not in cambodia. And that is, iirc, their only claim that caused kerry to retract (seared, seared!). I guess regurgitate means mention the one thing they were right about?
February 21st, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Oh, and how many legislators do have “significant legislative accomplishments?” When you’re 1/100th or 1/435th of your body of the legislature, you can’t really single-handedly take credit for anything. What’s important isn’t what you accomplished, so much as what your voting record is. Were you on the right side of the important issues you voted on, or on the wrong side? That’s what matters. But talking about “legislative accomplishments” is silly. It would be like talking about Scalia’s “judicial accomplishments.”
February 21st, 2008 at 3:34 pm
You wrote:
the only retractions that came from the swift boat story came from Kerry
That sure sounds like a tacit endorsement of the truth of the Swift Boat allegations. Otherwise, why are retractions relevant? Of course, whenever you bring up the Swift Boat guys, you never bother to mention that virtually all of their allegations were total bullshit. Man, if they’d been making allegations like that in opposition to gun rights instead of to Kerry, your head would have exploded into a giant pedantic shitstorm that the blogosphere would still be working to clean and sanitize.
The SBVT’s were correct that Kerry was not in cambodia.
They were right that he wasn’t there on a specific date, but their claim was that he was never there at all, and like pretty much everything else they claimed, that was (surprise, surprise) bullshit.
But hey, why let minor little details like the truth and honesty get in the way of a good bit of character assassination, right?
You piss and moan and whine about hypocrisy, but apparently the “they have to lie to win” shtick is an example of “like you and me, only better” when it applies to you, huh?
February 21st, 2008 at 3:37 pm
How bad is it for the Dems? Al Gore and John Kerry were both much more qualified to be President than either Hillary or Obama.
2012 will be a laugh riot if this trend continues. Maybe Barbara Streisand for President?
Brittney Spears isn’t a Democrat is she?
February 21st, 2008 at 3:42 pm
You mean like the truth that the only retractions that came from the swift boat story came from Kerry? Is that truth, or no? That one claim is the only claim I’ve ever said the SBVs got right. You seem to imply that I accept as truth all their claims.
February 21st, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Is that truth, or no?
Technically true, yes. Also incredibly misleading devoid of context (and, conveniently enough, you provided no context). Why is it “amusing” that the only retraction came from Kerry? Do you find it equally “amusing” that virtually everything they said was bullshit?
BTW, to my knowledge, Young Earth Creationists haven’t retracted anything either.
February 21st, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Ok, then.
February 21st, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Actually, I was wrong (or, as you’d put it, I “lied”). Your statement is not true:
There was at least one retraction from the SBVT camp. Guess that makes you a liar…
February 21st, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Note how I, unlike Kerry, quickly acknowledge my error in the public square. (i.e., see update above)
February 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Yeah, furiously Googling, all right. I did a Google on ‘swift boat retraction’ and presented you with the very first link. I went absolutely no further. Took all of 5 seconds. Man, was I ever desperate! 🙂
February 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Oh, and you still haven’t answered the question of why that would be “amusing,” even if it had been true…
February 21st, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Changing the subject drastically, wouldn’t Obama winning the Democratic nomination disprove your “Internet picks losers” hypothesis?
February 21st, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Well, your first comment was like 45 minutes ago. I figured you were trying to track it down.
I found it amusing because the one event, the one thing that launched Kerry’s career (you know, that was seared, seared into his mind) was, uh, bogus. Or, despite being seared, were at least a bit fuzzy.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Obama has, thus far, disproved all my hypothesis involving him. After the primaries, I think I may owe lots of people beers.
February 21st, 2008 at 5:17 pm
I guess what we’re saying is that merely mentioning it in the fashion and context you did seems pretty clearly a tacit nod to to the SBV idiots.
I’ll say the same thing I said then–it’s the worst kind of hitman when did you stop beating your wife politics, and to see it boomerang against a candidate on the other side of the fence is hardly gratifying…the hackattacks on we’re seeing on McCain (the only thing between Barack “I support the 2A unless you feel like banning guns” Obama and the Oval Office) are particularly disturbing.
Mentioning the SBVs without mentioning what assholes they were is skating on pretty thin intellectual ice.
February 21st, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Sebastian-PGP:
Mentioning the SBVs without mentioning what assholes they were is skating on pretty thin intellectual ice.
Amen, brother!
Uncle:
If you can believe it, I didn’t even think to Google it until right after I commented that your claim was “technically true.” As soon as I clicked “submit,” I thought, “But is it really?” and that’s when I Googled. I agree with you that in my usual M.O. it’s step one.
February 21st, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Personally, I align with the SBV’s. I don’t know how old some of you are, but I was there when Kerry made his run for notoriety. I remember it. He lied about his role, worse, he lied about other people’s roles. He gamed the system to avoid as much of his duty as he could and then he vilified those who did not, when he got home. It didn’t wash then and it doesn’t wash now.
Funny how everybody thinks repeating “the swift boat veterans lied” must make it true. Yet, no one has proven a lie on their parts, but several have been exposed on Kerry’s part.
At the time of the election Kerry could not be successfully defended against the allegations, he couldn’t offer anything but denial. Yet records still exist that support his detractors. His military records are available but he won’t agree to release them, not now and not then when he wanted us to believe he was the savior of the nation.
So now, you lame ass apologists think restating your bullshit about how he was falsely accused of conduct unbecoming a man by the men who knew him and served with him somehow is relevant. Well, it isn’t!
Get back to me when he releases his full jacket of military service for public scrutiny. For a man who has nothing to hide, he hides it hard.
February 21st, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Sure it is. Right up there with mentioning Kerry without mentioning what a great guy he is, or that he’s a Vietnam War hero.
February 21st, 2008 at 10:58 pm
And what, no props for “giant pedantic shitstorm?”
February 21st, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Actually, that’s kinda why he’s personna non grata for the most part…he pretty much released everything after the campaign and there was no there, there.
I don’t think you’ll ever get away with what the SBVs got ever again, anymore than you can hijack an airliner again with a matte knife and a fake bomb. McCain’s probably better off…still, the irony of a guy who actually went (and certainly could have avoided if he’d wanted to) getting torpedoed by supporters of a guy who didn’t go and avoided it quite deliberately is pretty funny. It ain’t like dude was a grunt who got drafted…he volunteered to go and performed a relatively risky MOS…and the SBVs have certainly been discredited.
Why not skip the cheap shots?
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:15 am
Do the Missouri on me, show me. Until then, it ain’t a cheap shot.
Also, I don’t care who else did what, we weren’t talking about who else. When we do, you might be surprised about my opinion. I don’t disrespect Kerry so I can justify voting for someone else. I just don’t respect him, for that matter, I don’t respect the someone else, either.
It is not imperative to condemn one in order to choose another. It is not imperative to choose one in order the condemn the other.
So, let’s do the Missouri thing. Show me. I did a lot of work looking for truth some 30 years after I watched the sonofabitch sit and lie to Congress, just to be sure. I have not found any exculpatory evidence. So show me.
Repeating “He was in Viet Nam”. doesn’t get it. So far all I have ever seen is people say he is pure as snow, I have yet to see one of those opinions supported by anything other than dislike of the other guy.
Which is really wierd, because I don’t like the other guy either, I still don’t feel obligated to “choose one”.. This ain’t a scratch off gambling game.
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:28 am
Tgirsch provided plenty of links. Try reading a couple.
February 23rd, 2008 at 4:29 am
PGP, I read them when they first appeared. They haven’t been updated.
I haven’t seen anything that rises to the level of astrology in his defense against the remembrances of the Swift Boat Veterans.
Why would so many people lie against him. Especially when the majority of them were more closely aligned with his stated political positions than they were the other sorry sonofabitch?
I have either lived a lot harder life than I have previously appreciated or I am a Hell of a lot older than I thought. But I damn sure can spot a four-flusher from a mile away. I saw Kerry coming from more than 30 years away.
I don’t have any heartburn with anyone who doesn’t like Bush, or McCain, or Clinton or Obama, but I truthfully can say I suspect anybody who thinks John Kerrey is a man.
February 23rd, 2008 at 7:08 pm
IIRC, the SBVs’ claims were mostly things that could never be definitely proven or disproven, short of finding someone who’d kept a Super-8 movie camera running through one of the incidents. They were character impressions, differing interpretations of various events, and details that wouldn’t have been written into official reports – probably not about anyone unless the superior officer witnessed it for himself, but certainly not about a family friend of a US Senator who (at that time, before Chappaquiddick) was considered likely to become President.
So it’s still a matter of credibility. And as far as I’m concerned, Kerry’s credibility always stank. There’s the “seared in my memory” speech – provably false “memories.” There’s his Winter Soldier testimony, slandering his comrades in front of Congress when he found out that a chestful of medals wouldn’t get him into Massachusetts liberal politics anymore.
Finally, three Purple Hearts, apparently without ever spending a night in the hospital to recover from these wounds. The SBVs claimed that two of his wounds were most likely scratches from fragments of his own grenades. Nothing especially wrong with getting scratched with your own grenade fragments in the heat of combat, and I know a retiree from Army Special Forces that says it happened to him once – and the medic gave him forms to fill out for a Purple Heart, but he threw them in the trash. He had too much pride to claim a Purple Heart for something that required little more than a band-aid. Kerry apparently lacked that pride, and three minor wounds without anything serious starts to push coincidence…
But the real bottom line is his “Winter soldier” testimony. There’s no way I’d expect our troops to serve under a CINC who’d turned on the men who served with him like that.