Local shooting
There was a shooting at a Knoxville mall. R. Neal notes that a local politico was there and that the politico was armed. R. Neal asks:
Is it legal to be in possession of a handgun on private property posted “no weapons” regardless of whether you have a permit?
It is not, presuming a sign prohibiting weapons is posted in a conspicuous place (link). It’s been years since I’ve been to that mall but I don’t recall seeing such a sign.
Or does that not apply to elected officials?
Does anything?
Or is he a sworn deputy or something?
Dunno.
Update: Apparently Lumpy is like you and me, only better. He can carry at the mall, and is exempt from private property owners’ prohibitions.
Update: Maybe not. See (b)(2). Perhaps he is prohibited after all.
Yet another update: As I said, been years since I’ve been to that mall. But I’m being told that the Knoxville Center’s sign prohibiting carrying of arms is not a legal posting as the sign is not at the entrance and is listed as one of the mall rules once you get inside the mall. State law requires the sign at the entrance. Anyone know?
October 9th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Oh, look! We have facts and they have Penis Jokes™!
October 9th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
That’s one of the funny things about Texas law.
If property owners want to legally ban CHL holders from carrying in their buildings, they must post signs that comply with Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(B). 30.06 signs have to be in both English and Spanish, in contrasting block letters at least 1 inch in height, in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/signposting.htm
8.5×11″ print outs don’t work.
Hidden signs won’t cut it.
Hard to read signs aren’t legal.
“No Guns” is just silly.
The no-smoking style signs are right out.
Spell it out loud and proud that you don’t want legally armed citizens on your property, so that citizens cannot be caught unaware, and let the chips fall where they lay.
I like it. If you want a disarmed citizenry, you have to say it up front. That’s pretty easy.
Not all that many places legally post the signage to bar entrance by armed private citizens. Some are down right funny in their inability to follow the easy to understand law.
October 9th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
This gets into the technicalities of the law, but in TN you can not be arrested for illegal possession if the discovery is from a situation where lethal force is justified.
That is, if the perp had pointed his gun at the politico and the politico had shot the perp, he could not be charged with illegal carrying. But, then, the same is true for you and I.
However, since the politico was able to attempt verbal persuasion without any apparent further threat to anyone (else’s) life, does the situation qualify as “Discovery through lawful use situation”? Or does, a man with a gun who just shot someone constitute a lethal force situtation even if he is not actively threatening someone else?
October 9th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
no matter the answer, should there be criminal penalties for a civil matter?
October 9th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
The biggest mall around here has all kinds of prohibitions listed at entrances to the mall itself, among them a firearms prohibition.
However, if one enters the mall through one of the anchor department stores, there are no signs whatsoever.
October 9th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
P.s. That mall also prohibits smoking in their open-air parking facility.
Fucking tight-ass control freaks.
October 9th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I often drive into Knoxville and spend money, more frequently than I do in Nashville or Chattanooga. I always exercise my 2A right, in large part due to occurrences such as this one. Center Mall, you just lost a customer – not because of the shooting – it’s your policy that lost my purchasing power.
October 9th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
October 9th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
oops, I meant to add that quote inspires all sorts of confidence.
Which is why I carry
October 9th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
In Tenn, the sign has to be 13″x9″ and actually state the section and sub section of the law… they also have to be posted at EVERY public entrance. Most places do not get it right – in fact when I live in Tenn, the only legally binding sign that I saw was at city hall…
October 9th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
I saw on one of the reports that the mall is managed by Simon. IIRC, they’re notoriously anti- self defense. Aside from crappy stores, that’s why I don’t go to Simon properties.
Regards,
Rabbit.
October 10th, 2008 at 12:38 am
I went by KC today, and they had a sign of general rules posted by the movie theater entrance. I would expect to see the international symbol of a handgun with a mark through it if they didn’t want people carrying in the mall.
October 10th, 2008 at 7:38 am
Y-A G,
I thought it was an “affirmative defense”, which is a far cry from “can’t be arrested”.
October 10th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Tam, can you elaborate on that distinction? Strictly speaking, you “can be arrested” for anything if the cops reasonably suspect you of something else, but if they know you have an affirmative defense to the crime they are supposedly arresting you for, they’re in trouble.