1911s suck – this time with numbers
Crunching the numbers on failures and reliability.
BTW, people seem to take these “your gun sucks” posts a little too seriously. Choosing a gun is a very personal thing. There are, for instance, a lot of things that can’t be measured such as feel, ergonomics, what works for individuals. If you like 1991s or Glocks or whatever, go for it. I link to these posts because sometimes there’s useful info or you might learn something just by hearing another point of view.
I don’t think 1911s suck. I like to shoot them because they are pleasant to shoot. So don’t get all butthurt because someone doesn’t like your flavor of kool-aid.
December 30th, 2010 at 11:05 am
I’ve seen them all fail, more than one Glock has left here in a bag of parts, 2 Taurus 1911’s blew parts out during shooting. I have had my own 1911’s jam, and others too.
I think it was Tam that said if you have never broken a gun, you’re not shooting it enough.
December 30th, 2010 at 11:55 am
people always talk about glock fanboys, but in my esperience John Moses Browning fanboys are just as bad, if not worse.
it’s a gun folks.it’s just a machine. there’s no reason to get all emotionally invested in any particular brand or design.
December 30th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
This guy again?
I don’t care that he doesn’t like the 1911. What I take issue with is his apparent quest to save us foolish 1911 fans from ourselves.
December 30th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
For full disclosure: I’m a Glock guy.
That being said, I love the feel of the 1911. Its an amazing gun to fondle and shoot, but every time I get an itch to go out and buy one I hear Rob Pincus bemoan how many failures he has seen 1911s (high quality 1911s) have throughout the countless classes he has taught.
The man has seen a lot of students put a gobs and gobs of rounds down range… When says that he always sees 1911s get sidlined during his classes that makes me not feel 100% confident with a 1911 as a personal defense gun… And I’m not willing to plunk down $1,000+ for it just to be a range toy.
December 30th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Sure the 1911 sucks… But only when you do not have one and need it….
December 30th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
I love my Colt 1991, hated my Glock (and sold it) but what I love even more than my Colt is my Kel Tec (which I’m carrying right now).
December 30th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
So don’t get all butthurt because someone doesn’t like your flavor of kool-aid.
Without that the intertubes would be one boring place.
My favorite was back when Mean Mr. Mustard (a now erased blog) used to bash Roger Waters.
You think Glock fanboys are bad, try a post making fun of Waters.
December 30th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
If you pay a thousand bucks for a super accurate range gun then do not break it in with at least 500 rounds what exactly do you expect??? Of course you should break in all pistols with 500 rounds and frequent cleanings. Solves a lot of problems plus it will rapidly let you know if you have a lemon. Yes it is expensive but what is your life worth??? My recommendation would be to get a lower priced 19ll like the springfield armory gi 45. Simple accurate reliable running about 500 bucks. That means more cash for break in ammo… You do not need a space gun to save your life even if they look cool.
December 30th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
I’m curious – I haven’t bought a new centerfire handgun in a looong time – why is it a 1911 needs 500 rounds to break it in (to be reliable) and a Glock (or a Beretta or an S&W) doesn’t? Is it something about the design or just the way they’re built?
FWIW, I like shooting “all of the above”..:)
December 30th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Bought a Springfield Armory “USGI” 1911. And two boxes of “white box” ball ammo. Went to the range. Zero failures on a brand new gun.
Decided to load up for home defense. Bought a box each of several “high performance” hollowpoints. My pistol did NOT like on brand. I gave those away. I keep three mags loaded with the other stuff. Again, never a failure.
No “break-in”, no pampering, and I don’t expect to compete in bullseye or other games, just to be able to pull the gun and have it fire, successively, a few times. It does that.
It’s like buying an old jeep, taking it through the lumber trails, then parking it in the nearest car show and expecting a prize. That’s NOT what it was made for.
What it was made for, it does quite well.
MC
December 30th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Because it is made out of metal. The break in procedure loosens debris,burs and and smooths things out. How many people get a pair of heavy duty work boots and take them straight to work without breaking them in?? Not too many.. Breaking in gun is similar… Generally the tougher the material you use to make something the tougher it is to break in.
December 30th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Both my S&Ws run like tops, no break-in needed.
Tho one does need to look at the 1911 and what its built for. A workhorse 1911 won’t make groups as tight as the hand-fitted semi-custom or custom gun, but that small bit of wiggle can add to reliability.
I love my 1911s, but my love is not unquestioning. Some people don’t like them, that’s fine. I don’t like Glocks, they aren’t bad guns just the Handgun world isn’t one-size-fits-all.
I just hate seeing junk science and urban legend being used to prove a point.
December 30th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Soooo, what if H und K made a 1911? That way the buyer and the gun would BOTH suck…….and we would hate them…..
December 30th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
I don’t have a problem with people not liking my flavor of kool-aid. it’s when they state their personal preferences/limitations as revealed, indisputable, truth. To wit the statement from the “1911s Suck” column:
“The 1911 is too big to conceal.”
Stated as a fact. which I have direct evidence that contradicts that statement as written.
I know all sorts of folks that conceal full sized 1911’s.
I carry a Browning Hi Power (my favorite flavor of kool-aid), essentially the same sized pistol, all year round.
Now, if he had stated “The 1911 is too big for me to conceal.” or “too big for me to conceal comfortably”, or even, “I prefer a smaller lighter piece for CCW”, then I’d have no problem with his statement.
December 30th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Too big to conceal??? I can conceal my pre 85 taurus .357 with a six inch barrel.. The 1911 is no problem…
December 30th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
I bought a Beretta Model 21 Bobcat in 22LR, and found it to be a jam-o-matic. I laboriously put 200 rounds through the pistol, unjamming at least once a magazine. It kept jamming.
Then I tried seven different bullet weight & velocity rounds in it, multiple magazines of each, trying to find which round was least jammerific. Remington Golden Bullet bulk ammo won the statistical test.
By the time the testing was over, I had more than 300 rounds through the pistol.
I then shot it every once in a while, usually with my kids at the range, and recently realized I had over 500 rounds through it.
I redid the tests, one magazine each of the same weights and velocities as before; often the same box as before. Only one brand jammed once. Remington Golden Bullet.
I don’t ever want to try this with a 45. I ain’t got that much disposable income.
December 30th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
I wrote the follow-up post because I was repeatedly told that “only cheap 1911s are unreliable” and “Glocks jam all of the time”.
I went to the most unbiased source I could find, and found every review of every gun in question from 1996 to the present, and tallied them up. The facts speak for themselves.
And the 1911 fans have been pretty quiet.
I don’t hate 1911s, or their fans. But there is a lot of denial going on in the 1911 camp.
December 30th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Gunnutmegger there is a huge difference between cheap and inexpensive…
December 30th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
The reason that 1911’s have higher reliability problems is that people have so many ways to screw around with them, people actually do screw with them so much, and some percentage of screwing around is going to screw ’em up.
That’s all.
December 30th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Considering that nearly every semi-automatic on the market, with the exception of Berettas and a very few others, is an infringement on the designs of John Moses Browning, even if you don’t like 1911’s, you’re still carrying a gun that’s based on one of JMB’s designs, unless it’s a Beretta or revolver. Glock didn’t invent the wheel, he reinvented the 1911.
December 30th, 2010 at 11:32 pm
I’m willing to wait and give Glock 71 more years of experience before I cast aspersions.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. Wife is the one in the family who carries a 1911. Seems to work fine as far as she’s concerned.
December 31st, 2010 at 3:50 am
My Kimber Warrior was more finicky about ammo than my Springfield TRP, despite being more expensive. YMMV.
EDIT: Anecdotal data: no failures of any kind on the Springfield (500 rounds-ish). Also, I can conceal it just fine. Again, YMMV.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:57 pm
“Worked fine with ball ammunition”. All right then. Anything beyond that is outside of design limits. Just anecdotaly, my 1911 (not A1) has been in the breakin process since 1917 and is doing pretty OK. The new slide (1984) and several replacement bushings have put the process back a little, but I endeavor to persevere. Efforts to qualify a replacement, Glock 20 gen 2.5, are not going so well.