The police are citizens too
Dealing with citizens legally carrying a concealed weapon. An article written from the police point of view on how to identify you and deal with you. Some good, some bad. I do note one particularly good thing is the author mentions that those who carry have, in the past, been willing to help the police out.
April 27th, 2011 at 9:37 am
In my neck of the woods, it is pretty common (like 75% likely hood) that if you are pulled over for speeding and its not too excessive (like 10 or 15 over) CWP holders will get out of the ticket and just get a verbal warning.
April 27th, 2011 at 10:52 am
Ron Avery (article author) is a long time IPSC shooter (Grand Master) who is “one of us” (in the gun culture). Not sure what you found was bad in the article. Thought it was very professional and fair and 10,000% better than the majority of articles written by and for cops on this subject.
April 27th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
“Not sure what you found was bad in the article.”
He reiterates that a lot of CCW holders aren’t legal experts. I have generally found that lots of cops aren’t legal experts either, especially when large parts of the article are on what exactly is legal for citizens to do. He also mentions how it is really easy for cops to put CCW holders in legal catch 22s. His case is a traffic stop, but it could just as easily be requiring you to show the gun in an concealed-only jurisdiction.
April 27th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Karl-
Its because it read like the title should have been “How to pick out law abiding citizens to harass”
There is simply no reason what so ever for cops to be on the look out for legal concealed carriers.
April 27th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
Threat awareness is all about looking for people with weapons. If the cop has his head on a proper swivel, he should be looking for anyone carrying a gun including lawful civilians.
I read the article as (1) here are attributes that let you differentiate a CCWer from a typical criminal and (2) CCWers are more like us than they are like common criminals and should not be placed in the same threat category as criminals.
April 27th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
I seem to be about 35 years older than Uncle. I remember when a traffic stop was a mostly friendly interaction between citizens, one of whom wore a badge, to admonish the non-badged one for a really very minor infraction. I even recall an article in Psychology Today recommending that one should get out of the car in a traffic stop and stand up to the cop, to make it harder for him to play the monkey social-dominance game.
Things seem to have changed. Why should a private citizen have to behave in such a way as to put a lunatic statist paranoid thuggish skinheaded steroid-abusing cop at ease? No, I’ll not keep my hands on the steering wheel, yes, I’ll reach into the glove box for the tag receipt.
Said cop might well murder me for acting like a free citizen, but, you know? I’m old and grumpy enough that I no longer care, ‘specially since I now know that someone will look after my cat if I have to leave the planet suddenly.
April 27th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
It’s a non-article. Why would cops be on the lookout for CCWers? Trust me, the economy sucks and people have their own sh!t to worry about. You lawfully carrying a pistol concealed isn’t a priority these days. Excluding traffic stops, law abiding citizens coming in contact with the police is a rarity. Cops don’t got to CVS to profile CCWers in the check out line. I don’t really agree with the Catch-22 of everyone is doing something wrong, either. In situations where someone is unintentionally violating a CCW statute, a keeping it real showdown in the middle of the street is what’s going to get them busted, not the mistake itself.
April 27th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Well, I would give the guy the kudos for a fairly balance article. He is telling us what we give out as tell tails. Tells are as important as is knowing when and what to do.
I almost won’t travel anymore as I am old and I don’t want to get into some area I do not know the mores and morals.
I had a friend in the Highway Patrol and their current policy is to prone anyone they find carrying. I did not ask what he meant by find, but I would take it to mean you did not tell them you are carrying. He is known to not like guns and only carried when he absolutely had to. His wife is a little the other way.
It is getting harder and harder to obey all the laws we have on the books, but I continue to do my best to not attract any attention. Seems to be working.
April 27th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
Well let’s see. It starts off with right to carry in quotes as if they don’t see it as a true right. Then continues to say many cops are alarmed that (mere) citizens are carrying weapons. I mean, sure, we’re all equal citizens, but some of us are more equal than others…
April 27th, 2011 at 7:56 pm
I am a former law enforcement officer and hope to someday be a CCW authorized concealed carrier; unfortunately I live in Illinois. The following sentence in the article gave me pause:
“As the ‘right to carry’ spreads across the United States, many law enforcement agencies and police officers express their unease — and for some, outright alarm — at the idea of citizens carrying concealed weapons.”
I would say that ‘unease’ is suspect, but any law enforcement officer who is ‘alarmed’ at CCW has no business wearing a badge. Unfortunately, there are some police officers who simply should never have been allowed on the force and I guess we all have to live with that failure of the testing system.
Beyond that, I find the article to be very good and a guide to law enforcement everywhere in how to deal with a CCW holder. The CCW holder is most likely pro law enforcement and should be treated as more of a trusted friend than a threat. Anything else is an insult to the citizen and is likely to provide more problems for the officer than he/she would have to deal with otherwise.
April 27th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
I am not a current or former LEO but like Susan, I hope that my state (IL) will eventually allow me to carry concealed. I saw nothing wrong with the article. I know some CCW holders have had bad experiences with the police. However, I really believe that the majority of actual working cops are on our side on this issue. You have to remember that they perform a very dangerous job. When they come upon you, they do not know you are one of the “good guys” I have no problem with them being cautions or aware of their surroundings by looking for indicators as to who might be carrying a weapon. I will do everything in my power if ever stopped while carrying to assure them by my behavior that I am not a threat.
April 28th, 2011 at 9:26 am
Susan and Tony,
Sorry to hear that y’all live in a slave state. I thought that the 13th and 14th Amendments had eliminated that, but evidently there are many among “the-powers-that-be” who are still pro-slavery.
But the proper role of our elected officials and police in our Constitutional Republic of “free and independent States” is that they are our EMPLOYEES and public SERVANTS who work UNDER “delegated powers”. Their rightful role is that we ALLOW them to carry weapons while on the job for us instead of the inverted statement by Tony: “I hope that my state (IL) will eventually allow me to carry concealed.” The most basic human right is being FREE to acquire, keep and carry the means of self-defense. Down through history that has been the difference between free people and slaves. Hence, “the Land of Lincoln” is a SLAVE STATE. And ONLY YOUR ENEMY WANTS YOU DISARMED!
April 28th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
I was actually in a situation with this potential the other day. I got pulled over – he got the wrong car, but started out by asking “were you in X lane at [point Y]?” which moved on to “Did you see who was?” – but the tricky part is that the only good place for me to pull over was a school parking lot. If he had asked me to step out of the car, I would have committed a felony if I obeyed (my CHP means I’m fine if I stay in the car (Code of VA 18.2-308.1(B)(vi)).
So did I. It was pretty well written, I think.
April 28th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Solid article, reflecting a reasonable attitude. Got no beef with it.
It could be useful to help CCWers think about how “deep” their concealment actually is. Behavior, wardrobe, visible pocket knife, etc. Police aren’t the only ones who might notice these clues.
April 28th, 2011 at 9:34 pm
I read the “right to carry” in parenthesis not as casting aspersion or doubt on the right but simply as a way to separate the phrase so the sentence would be clearer.
Heck, I daresay a little googling will find unabashedly pro-gun folks talking of the “right to carry” movement spreading across teh country with similar punctuation.
The only other good way to write the phrase that I’ve seen that sets it out is to capitalize Right to Carry, which is also awkward.
We need to look for real threats, not nit-picky grammar differences in an otherwise solid article aimed at cops, some of whom are persuadable on the subject if they don’t already agree.
More honey, less vinegar.