Guns and medical marijuana
ATF says that medical marijuana users cannot own guns. The logic is sketchy since form 4473 asks if one is an unlawful user. I would say being permitted by the state makes one’s use lawful. ATF disagrees:
The federal government considers all users of medical marijuana unlawful, no matter what state law says.
Generally, the government considers us criminals anyway.
I would answer the question with a no, personally, since someone with their card is not an unlawful user.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:06 am
“The federal government considers all users of medical marijuana unlawful, no matter what state law says.”
The Constitution considers all prohibition of drugs unlawful, no matter what federal law says.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:24 am
A “NO” on the form 4473, by a lawful user of medical marijuana, will then be a basis for a perjury charge. “Win-Win,” as the ATF might say.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:36 am
Actually there are 4 people in the US that can own guns and use weed…They have a FEDERAL weed prescription. One of them got arrested by the Oregon state patrol for having an ounce on her.. They were dubious when she said she had a federal prescription but calls to the attorney generals office and the DEA said yes she was a legal user with full Federal approval.. She gets a half a pound every month from the government.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:37 am
What makes this even worse is that you can get prescription drugs – legal drugs under the eyes of the FDA, ATF, and everyone else – which contain THC. I remember when my late mother was in the nursing home they gave her an appetite stimulant called Marinol or something like that. Guess what it contained?
September 29th, 2011 at 10:40 am
boy that will not be a winning case for us. “so you smoke dope and you want a gun..” a loss for gun and personal rights…
September 29th, 2011 at 11:08 am
Funny. The Anointed One’s Admin has been cracking down on Dope Users in the U.S. Guess they want only their Buddies down in Mexico who get Free Guns from the ATF to have the Marijuana Concession on this side of the Border. No Free Market for Ganja under His Watch, right? Might cut into the Cash that his Cronies are Skimming off the Top when the Weed hits the Street.
September 29th, 2011 at 11:45 am
I think technically the ATF has it correct on this one. The 4473 form is a Federal form, and at the Federal level, marijuana is illegal, medical or not. The DEA could come arrest every glaucoma having grandma with a medical marijuana card in Colorado tomorrow and be perfectly justified.
The only reason they don’t is that they don’t want picutres of grandma being loaded into the paddy wagon on every nightly news channel. It might hurt their funding.
September 29th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
A Horse Thief says: The only reason they dont is that they dont want picutres of grandma being loaded into the paddy wagon on every nightly news channel.
Sooooo… someone that does get picked up by the federales on a charge of merrijoowana possession has a reasonable expectation of getting it tossed on the grounds of selective enforcement AKA Equal Protection concerns?
Yerhonner, I was selected by the DEA for this charge because I was not photogenic enough to be a risk to their departmental funding. If I were a little blue-haired gramma with glaucoma on that very handy list maintained by the state MM licensing authority, thus providing a guide to months worth of low risk arrests and high-probability of kitten stomping and easy prosecutions, they wouldn’t have dared charge me.
September 29th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
I’m a gun nut, a State registered medical marijuana patient, and a strong believer in our Constitution and Federalism. Not to mention a hunter and fishermen.
I’m 22 years old. Pretty healthy young man. Outspoken against police abuse, corruption, and B.S. spending. What I’m not though, is pain free.
Now the only thing I have to worry about is my door getting booted in after buying a .22 Single shot as a gift for a nephew.
September 29th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
“a State registered medical marijuana patient”
“Im 22 years old. Pretty healthy young man.”
Behold the power of pot! If you become a medical marijuana patient, you become healthy and young.
FBI spoke about this at the NRA Meeting in Pittsburgh last April. According to federalism, the feds hold that if you use pot you are in violation of federal law and thus an unlawful user.
FBI knows that the medical pot scam is a scam but does not have the resources to bust everyone. They seem happy to prevent dopers from obtaining guns for now.
It is my desire that Congress fixes this with an state medical exemption in federal law. Seems the smoothest remedy.
September 29th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
“They seem happy to prevent dopers from obtaining guns for now.”
They can do that? I mean as a rule instead of as an incredibly rare exception to the rule?
September 29th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
Being permitted by the State just means you’re not using it in violation of State law.
Federal law still prohibits it, thus unlawful under Federal law.
The law in question is stupid (and unconstitutional as A Critic says, but law enforcement will ignore that because the Supreme Court said it’s okay*), just as is the law that says users of illegal drugs can’t own a gun.
But it is an actual law, and I prefer my law enforcement actually enforce the law, rather than ignoring the bits I’d want – because if they can ignore bits, they can ignore bits I don’t want.
Fixing bad laws is Congress’s job.
(* Unconstitutional why? No enumerated power.
I don’t give a damn what the Supremes decided in Raich; we needed an Amendment to ban the sale and possession of liquor, marijuana is no different.
Now, if they merely banned the interstate trade in drugs, that would be, while still stupid, within their enumerated powers.)
September 29th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
@Shootin Buddy … look up the side effects of just about any neuroprotective medication. Then read this …
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15030397
Then read this …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol
http://projectcbd.com/
It’s a pretty strong theory to breed THC, and other psychoactive, out of a strain for strictly medical use. No psychoactive effects and all the same benefit to THC. 1 in 1,000 plants in theory posses the gene. Many growers are contributing to testing strains to develop an open database of information for researchers that are otherwise blocked by the DEA.
Not all of us lean Left… Does the Republican party REALLY want to get control back? Make Obama look bad on Medical Marijuana. Stand up for Liberty and the 2nd Amendment, recognize Federalism … HR2306. Call your rep, only way this conversation can end.
September 29th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
“The federal government considers all users of medical marijuana unlawful, no matter what state law says. – ATF”
“Medical marijuana already exists. It’s called Marinol. -DEA” (see also the first bullet point here: http://www.justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marinol.html )
Just another case of right and left hand not know what each other are doing.
September 29th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
Josh, marijuana is still Schedule I. The pseudoscience of the dopers isn’t going to change decades of medical research.
As to me, it is my deepest desire to legalize pot at the state and federal level as it will be the death of the Libertarian Party and no one with facial hair and a sign will bother me about Ron Paul as I walk to work.
September 29th, 2011 at 8:41 pm
SB: I’ll believe the LP is Teh Dope Party when they merge with NORML — or when a Republican Fed-level pol other than Ron Paul keeps his campaign promises.
Dick Lugar and Dick Nixon recruited more LP voters by revulsion than pot ever did. Isn’t it time for GOP to either split into the Big Gov/Big Biz and Actual Conservative wing?
Of course, I’ll still vote LP, ‘cos neither face of the Elephant is any more serious about liberty than the jackasses across the aisle.
September 29th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
PS: SB, is “unlawful” in “unlawful user” a term of art in the 4473 “are you a doper?” query, or is it just there as an ornament? Does it not imply the possibility of lawful users of all substances listed?
Isn’t caffeine a “stimulant,” and do you purchase and use it on a regular basis? –Are you addicted?
Hey, stimulants are on the list — and Mr. Obama’s FDA and DEA are talkin’ about crackin’ down on all those organic nostrums. That cuppa Colombian might not be stayin’ fed-legal after all.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:03 am
All I can say is that form 4473 is actually a federal form so If you are prop 215 in Cali.You cant answer no on the form because it is a federal form so federally they consider you unlawful user.I just wonder if they actually follow up on checking your status if you answered no and were a card holder.
September 30th, 2011 at 9:08 am
if there is a jurisdictional issue with the form as to federal law being only in federal conclaves then why is it a concern ? over gun rights the law has no bearing within the state unless boarder are cross please anyone where is the case law on jurisdictional enforcement powers of the federal law vs state please advise / massvocals@comcast.net
September 30th, 2011 at 10:44 am
SB,
“Josh, marijuana is still Schedule I. The pseudoscience of the dopers isnt going to change decades of medical research.”
Gosh, do you mean The Science Is Settled?
Good to see that you have come around to having some faith in $cience and re$earch.
October 2nd, 2011 at 12:08 am
@Tam … pseudoscience? The Nixon report? You know, the one Nixon threw in the trash! The study done at Oakland University that stated that marijuana was basically harmless and non-addicting? Do you know that when the Federal Government passed the Marijuana Tax Act back in the late 30’s that the AMA wasn’t even informed until two days before the hearing? Medical science brought this to light throughout the last 80 years of research worlwide. Dopers don’t have a “pseudoscience”. The phrase is ignorant. How unintelligent are we as a society not to look back on the past 80 years and realize the wasted money on lies and ruining peoples lives over something that harms nobody. Who are we to legislate such idiology? Third world counties practice this messure of control on people. This county has done it for profit. 40 thousand per inmate per year! Our forfathers came to this country to run from such oppression. THEY EVEN GREW MARIJUANA FOR TRADE!
October 2nd, 2011 at 11:51 am
RDKLEEN,
It must suck going through life unable to detect sarcasm. 🙁
October 2nd, 2011 at 11:52 am
PS: Also, paragraph breaks are your friend.