Guns and cars
A friend of mine who used to drag race once told me a joke that went something like this (I may get the numbers wrong). What does a 500hp Mustang have in common with a 1,000hp Supra? They both do the 1/4 mile in 12.
What that means is that numbers don’t win races. For instance, here’s a sweet Hennessey Twin Turbo V1000 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe. Look at the numbers: 1,000 bhp @ 6,400 rpm.
Nice! Right? Well, here’s a sweet Hennessey GTR. And look at the numbers: 813 bhp @ 6,500 rpm.
Looking at that, no contest right? CTS-V must rule the road? Except that the CTS-V does 0-60 mph in 3.5 seconds and the 1/4 Mile in 10.9. The GTR puts up a 0-60 of 2.6 seconds and 1/4 mile in 10.5. That doesn’t match the numbers!
It’s kinda like the 9mm v. 40S&W v. 45ACP v. SacredCow debates?
In a defensive gun use, stopping the threat, on average, requires you to fire 2.x times. Does it matter if it’s 2.1 or 2.4?
And, only related tangentially to car blogging, but the Infiniti Essence, a 592-hp gasoline/electric hybrid coupe looks sharp.
December 9th, 2011 at 10:40 am
(1) Horsepower/pound matters much more than just horsepower.
(2) Rear-end suspension matters a lot. I know the caddy has serious rear-end hop with even normal power levels. The Supra is notorious for not being able to put the power down as well.
(3) The average number of shots doesn’t matter because you don’t ever want to plan based on averages. That means you’re going to undershoot your prep half the time. Also the number of shots fired in an engagement is not a normal distribution. A useful statistic would be the 75% or 90% number on how many shots were fired. That’s where you want to prep.
December 9th, 2011 at 11:27 am
Putting the power to the ground is essential. About 20 years ago I taught my brother this fact. He put a huge big block engine into a heavy Buick Regal without positraction and thought thought it was bada@s. I proceeded to dust him with an almost stock small block Mustang LX with lighter weight, posi rear end, and superior suspension. He was so impressed with this that he went out and got a similar Mustang and still has that car, since equipped with a 450 HP stroker engine. It’s about as quick as the C5 Corvette I’m now running.
As for guns and calibers: A well placed shot with a medium caliber beats the heck out of missing with a big bore. Also, a mouse gun, being easier to carry, beats a .45 left behind every time. My .45 stays in the car, and the J-frame is carried.
December 9th, 2011 at 11:35 am
Agreed with Jeff – power to weight ratio really does mean a lot. So does a good driver. Stick a crappy driver in a ‘stang and (s)he’ll suck off the line…stick an excellent driver in a modified Supra that ISN’T a trailer queen show car, and (s)he’ll hit sillyfast numbers.
December 9th, 2011 at 11:56 am
Except the GTR is using all 4 wheels to put that power to the ground, and the CTS-V is not.
December 9th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
Its called tractionally challenged… Too much power is the same as too little… Too much and you spin to little and you cannot keep up.
December 9th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Now if they could just fix the ass-end of the GTR so it didn’t look like a 30K boy-racer.
December 9th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Those cars are impossibly ugly, and it functional ugly either. It’s boyricerracer ugly. But the difference is inevitably power to weight, tires, transmission, drivetrain.
In a rolling punch from 40-100mph the CTS will smoke it.
That said both cars are vaporware. Hennessey is famous for ripping people off and producing sub par shit. Why the auto mag industry still fellates that scuzzbucket is a bigger mystery than why the Kardashians exist.
December 9th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
The beauty of AWD.
The beauty of RWD is the running costs. Good thing you dont buy the CTSV to be a dragracer… Thats what drag cars are for.
December 9th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
(Should have read “it isn’t functional….”.)
That, and AWD tends to add weight right where you don’t want it on the car. Porsche found that its RWD racers were smoking the AWD ones in the 90s and dropped it. Most of the time you’re leaving sporty cars in the garage on days when the conditions favor AWD anyway.
It’s great for impressing car show hosts like Jeremy Clarkson who have more money than brains.
December 9th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Yup, which makes it good in all those races where everyone starts at 40. Does make it good for passing though. Vaporware or no, the stock GTR will still stomp a stock CTS-V.
December 9th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
That’s actually a pretty common real world scenario. Drag racing is the only scenario where you repeatedly start from a dead start. Rolling starts are pretty common whether you’re racing illegally the guy behind you merging on the highway or waiting for the pace car to roll off the track.
Hennessey is a goon, but the stock GTR and CTS are two totally different classes of car–one is a 4 door luxo-sedan and the other is a purpose built two door GT car.
December 9th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
Dead stop. Damn…Friday brain in full effect.
December 9th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
I realize that is a real world scenario hence why I mentioned passing. But this post is about racing.
They’re both coups though there is a sedan version of the CTS-V. I wish Infiniti would drop that engine in their G37 sedan. Of course, stillen makes some aftermarket equivalents. It’d be nice to turn my grocery hauler into a 550hp ass-hauler.
December 9th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Part of the reason the stock GTR is so fast off the line though is the launch control – all those computers do a really good job of putting all the power on the ground for that thing during take off.
December 9th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Yeah, the stock GTR does 0-60 in 2.9, compared to the upgraded versions 2.6.
December 9th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
Of course 2.1 vs 2.4 matters! Dammit, my Glock191192FSBSCAR can shoot fractions of Sacred Cow, metric & standard both (even if the ceramic barrel cracks).
December 9th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
Well…in a race with a rolling start (hence the comment about drag racing being a unique animal) a lot of the GTR’s advantage is probably negated. Racing != standing starts.
Road racing is about the ability to brake late, transfer weight quickly without upsetting the contact patches, and get on the gas early. I would think the GTR would have an advantage here as well in that it’s not a luxo-barge.
If I had stupid money to spend I’d pass em both over for a warmed Ford GT anyway.
December 9th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
(Actually in terms of curb weight they’re pretty close…would probably come down to weight distribution and transfer).
December 9th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Not much of a rugrat hauler though. If you’re gonna get rid of rear seats and have stupid money, go with the Bugatti Veyron EB 16.4.
December 9th, 2011 at 5:07 pm
Unlike the Ford, the Bugatti can actually beat the GTR 😀
December 9th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
I love Infiniti, but I’m glad you didn’t buy that new suv, what an overpriced price of shit. My 05 g35 6sp is the best car I’ve ever owned, It’s a feat of engineering.
December 9th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
You take the GTR and I’ll take the Ford, and we’ll do ten laps at Summit Point. I’ll be waiting for you at the finish.
Drag racing is lame.
December 9th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
(That tenth in the quarter isn’t very useful in that context).
December 9th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Always changing the rules. I’d go with the Bugatti at Summit Point.
December 9th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
Nobody needs a car that can do 0 to 60 in under 4 seconds. Only psychopaths want cars like that.
I’m not talking about a complete ban of such cars. Of course we should have exemptions for sporting events. But for regular people, step 1 is to register them all, step 2 is to confiscate them all.
You are 10 times more likely to kill yourself with it hotrod’n than you are to use it in a legitimate transportation incident.
Clearly the nation’s transportation laws are ineffective in keeping deadly cars out of the hands of children and the mentally ill.
Don’t confuse wanting a car with needing one. If no one has a car, then no one else needs one.
December 9th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
What rule have I changed? I’ve consistently been talking about road course/real world driving and not drag racing. Refusing to define “racing” as drag racing != changing the rules. Road courses are where the men and meatballs get separated.
And I’ll have a Ferrari for each day of the week for the Bugatti you can’t even get on the waiting list for.
December 9th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
(Drop the street tires and swap on some Hoosiers to negate the GTR’s launch advantage and that 0.1 in the drag race probably goes away too. Correct for atmospheric conditions? Height above sea level? Track conditions? Comparing 0-60 and 1/4mi times is the same sort of navel gazing that the AR vs AK keyboard warriors do ad nauseum).
December 9th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Put Hoosiers on that CTS-V and you probably lunch the drivetrain after a few full power launches.
December 9th, 2011 at 8:17 pm
For a fraction of the cost of most the above cars, one can buy a used Corvette, spend another $10 to 15K on turbos, suspension and brakes, and blow away most anything drag racing, road racing, and top speed. I’m talking real world cars here, not pie in the sky, one-off, mid 6-figure dream machines.
Bought mine used, already slightly modified, for less than $20K. Plenty enough performance for this psychopath. Insurance is under $500 a year, parts are cheaper than most any import, and it gets 30 MPG on long trips. Styling-wise, people ask me all the time if it’s new. If and when I sell, I’ll recoup roughly 80% of the purchase price. Name any other car like that.
December 9th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Because I spoke of drag races and you keep changing it to scenarios where what I wouldn’t work.
December 9th, 2011 at 11:43 pm
And now I start killing sacred cows. Whether it’s horsepower in cars, processing speed in computers, pixels in cameras, FPS of cartridges… there’s a point at which 99.9% of users will never need, never notice, and can’t use even if they wanted or needed to, which they never will.
At some point, we’re all just playing “cool kid.” Which is fine, and even fun sometimes, but we shouldn’t get too serious about any of it. The law of diminishing returns, and the ability to squeeze that upper range in any conceivable circumstance, make most of it foolishness.
December 11th, 2011 at 1:14 am
Stalker V6. http://www.bruntonauto.com/
I have one and it’ll run circles around most of these.
No windows, trunk or even a radio of course and if it rains you get a little wet, but for stopping, starting and turning, it gets it done.
December 11th, 2011 at 8:43 pm
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=700389#post700389
So, I read the thread of guns being treated like cars, and someone commented on how they wished someone would write up the opposite. Well, I got to feeling inspired, and here is the result. Feedback is appreciated, as are add-ons I missed regarding firearms treatment.
If Cars Were Treated Like Guns
By The3clipser, of Maryland Shooters
1. In order to own a car that has less than four cylinders, you need to be 18; for more than four, you need to be 21. This has nothing to do with horsepower or top speed and is completely arbitrary.
2. When buying a car from a dealer, in some states you are required to wait for seven days between buying the car and driving it off the lot. This is so the DMV can perform a more detailed check on your driving record, including for tickets and violations when you were a minor, in order to determine whether you are fit to own a car. It’s also supposed to prevent people from going off and driving through an area with heavy foot traffic, but no noticeable change is observed.
3. If you are buying or selling a car to someone in another state, you need to give it to a used car dealer, who will then give it to a dealer in another state, who will then give the car to the person you intended to sell it to. In some states, if your car has more than four cylinders, you need to perform the same procedure if selling the car in-state.
4. State regulations vary on your ability to drive your car. Some states allow you to drive anywhere, anytime. Others require a license, and obtaining this license can be anywhere from as simple as filling out a form and paying $50 to impossible unless you work at the DMV or know the sheriff. Others only allow you to drive on your own property. Still others don’t even allow you to do that. Some states respect others’ licenses, others only allow you to drive with theirs, and others don’t allow you to drive at all. Furthermore, in most areas people can ask that their place of business be car-free, and cars are not allowed within 500 feet of schools, places that charge admission, restaurants that serve alcohol, or places of worship.
5. When you aren’t driving the car, states vary in their storage restrictions. Some require you to store it in the garage, while others require you to keep it locked. Still others make you remove the engine and store it in other parts of your house, while if you have children the garage must be locked and you need one of those wheel locks.
6. For a period of ten years, cars were not allowed to be made with four doors and two or more of the following features: adjustable seats; stick shift; all-wheel drive/4WD; spoilers or “wings”; and power steering. Pickup trucks could not be made with two or more of the following: adjustable seats; stick shift; ground clearance of 18” or more; tires no bigger than 16”. SUVs could not be made with four doors and two or more of the following: brush guards; all-wheel drive/4WD; gross weight of 1 ton or more; looking like a pickup truck; and power steering. Cars manufactured prior to this period became increasingly expensive as supplies dwindled and demand rose, while neutered versions of these cars were sold with some of the offending features removed entirely, and others modified to fit the letter of the law, such as substitution of paddle shifters for a stick shift. Anti-car activists accuse car manufacturers of violating the spirit of the law. Some states adopt these rules into law permanently once they sunset nationally.
7. When driving, in some places there are two options to get from A to B: one is a covered highway where no one can see you drive; the other is an open highway where everyone can see you. Those driving on this open highway are accused of wanting to overthrow the DMV, and are more likely to be pulled over for no apparent reason other than someone seeing them drive.
8. When someone kills someone else while driving, the person is often ignored as the cause, regardless of whether they were drinking, being stupid, or just generally careless. Instead, the car is blamed as the cause of the death, since everyone knows cars drive themselves. In spite of the small minority of people who crash, the non-driving population insists on further restricting vehicle access to the public, insisting that only bus drivers and long haul truckers need to be able to drive, and the rest of the population can take public transportation.
9. In some states, you need to register your car as soon as you buy it. Others require you to give paint samples to the police if the car is new. It is suspected by many but unconfirmed that the samples themselves go into storage, while the vehicular data sent with them is entered into an illegally-maintained database for use by the DMV.
10. If you buy gasoline, some stations keep a record and you can expect the DMV attendants to show up at your door without legal reason, asking if you do in fact own a car, and if they can see it. Those who do not comply are subject to intimidation. Other states only allow you to buy gasoline with a special permit, while some alter the gasoline so it can be traced to your car in the event something happens. This also counts as a de facto database of who is buying how much gasoline, which is illegal, but unchallenged.
11. In films, the only people who drive and are the good guys who are affiliated with the DMV, unless they acquire the car from the bad guys through luck or chance. Having no prior driving experience does not deter them, since simply sitting behind the wheel of a car turns them into Mario Andretti.
12. Foreign criminals who drive are accused of obtaining their cars from car shows in the United States, while the accusers simultaneously tout this as reason to restrict driving and ignore the fact that the cars being driven by the criminals are police-specification and are unavailable on the civilian market.
13. Some states prohibit the owners from buying, selling, giving, or transferring a car with more than six cylinders within state lines. However, they do not prohibit possession or importation, so most people simply move outside their home state’s borders, sell their car to someone else while in that state, and drive back inside their home state’s lines. No law is broken in this transaction.
14. Anti-car groups tout the belief that cheap and affordable cars should be banned since, due to their price, they are easier for criminals to obtain and throw away once they use the car for their nefarious deeds. None of them consider the fact that, for some people, a cheap car is all they can afford.
15. Certain tires are manufactured in a manner that wears less on the car’s suspension system. These tires are subsequently toted by the major news networks to be “cop killer tires,” even though they actually stop faster than normal tires when the brakes are applied and are no more or less deadly than other tires.