Permit mill
Man teaching permit required for handgun carry permit course arrested:
On January 8, an undercover SLED agent attended Wykel’s concealed weapons permit training class with 15 other students.
According to the arrest warrant, the class – which is required by law to last eight hours – was finished in an hour. The warrant also states the students were given the answers to the test, and the class did not include the handgun qualification.
The 15 other students in Wykel’s class could also face perjury charges, as could his previous students. Wykel is a former South Carolina Department of Corrections employee.
January 30th, 2012 at 11:39 am
Amazing that a technical legality that costs people time and money has led to a criminal evasion of that technical legality. /sarc
January 30th, 2012 at 11:45 am
Ah, DOC … that explains it.
January 30th, 2012 at 11:47 am
In my state, you can’t legally touch a handgun until you get a “pistol permit” which grants you ownership, with “target and hunting” concealed carry (all other situations, locked up at home or locked up in a transit case in the trunk).
This prohibition includes instruction! So the NRA course needed for the permit is classroom only, with ZERO handling of a gun, and absolutely no live fire.
January 30th, 2012 at 11:50 am
Just had a similar case up here in Akron last fall. Over 200 Permits were pulled because the “Instructor” was basically Rubber Stamping the Classes for Profit.
However, if the State insists on this Training Requirement, perhaps the State could take some of that CHP LIcense money and fund an Inspector General’s Office and ensure that the Classes are up to snuff. Remember, a lot of people are taking the classes who are new to the Gun Culture, and may be ignorant of what’s involved. How often do we hear that people are going for their CHP “just in case,” and may never go back to Range. They just like having the ability to put their Pistol into a Glove Box or in their Purse or Tool Box w/o breaking the Law.
January 30th, 2012 at 11:52 am
Unbelievable, and then you have cases like in Arizona where their Dept of Public Safety gave instructor Charles Heller a hard time about giving his students extra material above and beyond the requirements (back before AZs Constitutional Carry).
January 30th, 2012 at 12:20 pm
The big story here is the decision to go after former students. That could get interesting fast.
January 30th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
No training requirement here, thankfully.
January 30th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
>The big story here is the decision to go after former >students. That could get interesting fast.
Depends on if they were expecting a full course, and got the shortie, or if they were going in expecting one from the get-go.
The real bad guy in this story is the instructor… regardless of their intent, I don’t think the students should be punished severely. If they have been issued CCWS, pull them, and then make sure these people take the full course.
January 30th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
Aaron: I agree completely. That’s why I’m watching it closely.
January 30th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
If the anti’s get an inch, like the training requirement, they’ll take a yard, like prosecuting people for something connected to the training.
Second Amendment rights are not subordinate to some arbitrary training requirement. Firearms training should be a part of everyone’s education. We do already have an education system in this country, don’t we?
January 30th, 2012 at 1:30 pm
You’d be wrong to go with the “If it ain’t worth doing, it ain’t worth doing well” argument. It’s a breach of contract with the students, and that calls for prosecution.
Chas, I could not agree with you more. But I was just musing about this the other day, and remembered what “our nation’s system of…” education had done to driving, sex, and civics. Let’s have a second look.
January 30th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
In my state, you can’t legally touch a handgun until you get a “pistol permit” which grants you ownership…
Sounds like NY? In the 50+ years I lived in NY, I never owned a handgun because of NY’s draconian firearms laws. ~8 months after I moved from NY to TX, I had my CHL.
.
January 30th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
1 hour online course and a test afterwards. Easy peesy.
January 30th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
Martywd: Yup… none other than NYS! I’ll say this, I felt the way you did, until I just finally went ahead and just held my nose and went through the process. I’m glad I did, because I now enjoy owning and shooting handguns quite a bit more than rifles, as it turns out.
I don’t support the NYS way of doing things, FYI. I wish NYS were as Constitutional as Vermont.
January 30th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
What. The Hell. Do you do. In a handgun class. For 8 friggin hours?
I tossed about 600 rounds downrange Saturday saying hello to my new Witness (the poly version does NOT have that ‘fits your hand like magic’ the steel ones do BTW). Took maybe 2 hours tops. Took the NRA course for CHL a year ago, drug out to 2 hours.
What else do you do?
Sounds like they made a ridiculous requirement just so they could bust people for not following it.
Jon
January 30th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
“The real bad guy in this story is the instructor…”
The instructor was the one put in the cage and didn’t hurt anyone. That makes him the victim.
January 30th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
No, No, No! You’re looking at this from the wrong perspective. If the State (or Fed) alows a good instructor to teach what is needed, then the class would take 1 hour, tops. Range time could be made available for the rest of the day. But to the State, it’s the paperwork that is most important. And as teacher unions, school boards, etc, have mandated, teaching of materials MUST expand to fill allocated time, a la The Peter Principle.
Stop yer bitchin’ and support your local bureaucrat!
( for those who need it spelled out, google “snark”.
January 30th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
Josiah – I can’t completely agree – his students paid a full fee and he didn’t give them the instruction they deserved to get for that money, and then at the end of it, they were “entitled” to a now-spurious document.
I don’t agree with forcing people to take instruction for a CCW, but certainly his students were victims more than he was.
January 30th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
Odd. In Texas, giving the students the answers is part of the course.
(Before the written test, the instructor goes over all the questions as a positive statement. As in, if there is a question that says, “a sign prohibiting carry has to cite what section of the Penal Code?” the the instructor will say, “all signs prohibiting carry have to cite section 30.06 of the Penal Code” in the pre-test review.)
January 30th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
In Texas, the vast majority of the course is how to avoid dangerous situations and teaching how to diffuse conflicts without the use of force.
January 30th, 2012 at 5:45 pm
So he was arrested? GOOD.
CHL classes in Texas, while kind of boring, do have alot of info and are REQUIRED. Whole 10 hrs, not including lunch.
January 30th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
Courses and instruction to exercise a right. Glad I live in PA. Round here, you can own a pistol or a longgun, with just a quick PICS check to make sure you arent a felon or any of the other prohibited groups.
a License To Carry Firearms (Handguns, sbrs, MGs, AOWs, … not rifles or shotguns), which allows you to conceal (we have open carry here with no license) costs $25 and mine took 15 minutes to process and get the card.
I’ll admit, that doesn’t quite follow our constitution, but dont remember it ever saying “The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and the state as long as they have a permit and training shall not be questioned” either.
January 30th, 2012 at 8:08 pm
When I got mine in Tennessee in the long ago, we debated 9mm vs 45 for about 5 hours…of course, back then the answer was 10mm.
January 30th, 2012 at 10:09 pm
I live in SC and I can tell you how my class went.Friday night we had a a class covering basic gun orientation and safety. The next day we spent the morning going over the laws covering firearms in general and CCW in particular.This lasted about 3-4 hrs at which time 1/2 the class went to the range and the shooting test the other 1/2 took the written test and then vice versa.The shooting part was very basic,If you could put bullets on a humanoid target at 15yds or less you were good. This was a full service class that included the required fingerprints and photo and addressed envelope all you had to do was drop your check into it and get your postage and send it off.
January 30th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
Yeah, in Ohio, we got the Classes PLUS Range time. Funny thing, there’s no Caliber Restriction/Minimums. So a Sweet Older “Mom” of someone we know got her CHP using a .22lr, like most of the Older Ladies in her class. I drive 4 hours west into Indiana, Tam says you just fill out some Forms and send in some cash. I drive 2 hours East, I can OC in Pittsburgh, even though I’m not a Citizen of Pennsylvania. I drive 8 hours into NYC, if I’m not someone “Special”, I get to go to Sing Sing. Drive 3 hours North from NYC into Vermont, it’s “Dude, what’s a Permit?”
What a Country.
January 31st, 2012 at 12:53 am
In Kali it’s an 8 hour class [mostly sea stories from the instructor] and 50 rounds. You are only ‘allowed’ three handguns on your permit, so there is your ‘registration’ right there. (one of the pistols I listed got kicked off ’cause it wasen’t registered to me) How did they know as the ATF files are supposed to be restricted?
My AZ and Utah permits are for five years, Kali, two.
January 31st, 2012 at 1:02 am
I don’t need no stinking permit to carry here in Wyoming. I do need the stinking permit for reciprocity in loser states that require permits.
Stop that shit right now.
January 31st, 2012 at 1:57 am
They wont go after the students. That just sounds like a LEO Official flapping their gums about what they “should do.”
The arguement that he is letting his students out an hour early only shows how superflous the class is. The only thing I this really sheds light on is don’t rely on your instructor as the end all of handgun and ccw knowledge. Any instructor who is worth his( or her) salt encourages students to get as much training as possible from as many sources as possible.
January 31st, 2012 at 6:41 pm
@Skip:
Kali has a handgun registration in the DOJ. Every handgun you bought through a dealer is registered, and any cop can run a check of the DOJ listing (provided the DOJ’s database is working, quite often it is unavailable-this is separate from their regular computer system). BTW, it is a felony to carry a handgun that is not listed in your name. This was enacted to give them a way to ding gangbangers caught with a gun, since it was normally a misdemeanor. You can register a handgun with DOJ by mail, IIRC. Details are available on their website.