I’m amazed people still have this debate
Of course I keep one in the chamber. It’s a gun. It’s supposed to have one there.
Remember, I do this to entertain me, not you.
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May 4th, 2012 at 9:30 am
Amen Unc.
May 4th, 2012 at 9:38 am
Without one in the pipe all you have is an expensive, 2 pound paper weight.
May 4th, 2012 at 9:52 am
No wonder you don’t wear a watch.
May 4th, 2012 at 9:54 am
If you’re afraid to keep one the chamber, you really need to re-evaluate your competence to own and carry a gun.
May 4th, 2012 at 10:05 am
The amount of misinformation spread about firearms in the last 100+ years is staggering. Hollywood and the MSM, I’m looking at you!
.
May 4th, 2012 at 10:32 am
If you’re afraid to keep one the chamber, you really need to re-evaluate your competence to own and carry a gun.
I typically do not keep one in the chamber, but it’s not because of my competence level, it’s because I’m around kids a lot. The problem with kids is that they often seem to have their heads just below the muzzle of my sidearm when it’s in my holster at 3:30, and I don’t dig one in the pipe pointing at a child’s brain.
If I was carrying an SA/DA hammer down it wouldn’t matter, but I’m mostly carrying 1911 or S&W M&P pistols, and there’s energy stored behind the firing mechanism, and no matter what anyone says, the preventive mechanical measures can fail.
May 4th, 2012 at 10:42 am
Seems to be a Hold Over from the older Hi-Powers that the Brits used (also Magazine Disconnect, remember), and the Israeli’s (who teach Condition 3 because they might have it snatched from them in the crowded streets over there by some Terrorist). Also, it seems to be handed down in the U.S because of the old Empty Chamber under the Hammer of the Colt Peacemakers from the Cowboy Days.
But nowadays? C’mon.
May 4th, 2012 at 10:57 am
They carry an empty chamber because the thug who is going to rob them for their air jordans is going to wait until they chamber a round before killing them…
May 4th, 2012 at 11:00 am
Wow Ben, just to be safe you could carry the gun disassembled too. With fast draw times from concealment being 1.5 seconds, you’ve managed to make it a 4 second process to get a shot on target. That’s more than enough time for someone to cover 50 feet and certainly enough time for even the most inept thug to have you held at gunpoint or shoot you before you chamber a round.
Can anyone say revolver??
May 4th, 2012 at 11:08 am
My “immediate use” gun always has one in front of the hammer. Then again, it’s a revolver.
May 4th, 2012 at 11:24 am
Question…. presuming modern firearms, why is carrying with an empty chamber in a self-loader seen as “safety” but in a revolver is seen as maddness?
Is it the trigger pull?
What if you have say a Kahr which has no safety and a long DA trigger pull… which is functionally rather like having a wheelgun. Long DA pull and no safety on that either.
But if you tell someone you keep the first chamber to index in the cylinder empty they’ll look at you like you’re insane.
What’s the difference?
May 4th, 2012 at 11:30 am
When you carry your pistol without a round chambered, you can recreate all those wonderful movie moments when, long after perceiving a threat and perhaps even after pointing the handgun at someone for 5 minutes, you demonstrate that you are really, really serious by racking the slide to chamber a round.
So it has that going for it, to paraphrase Bill Murray.
May 4th, 2012 at 11:43 am
Jack, that is actually a good question.
Older Single Action revolvers were often carried with an empty round under the hammer, because they could fire if dropped. The hammer-mounted firing pin could hit the primer just from momentum.
Even brand new Ruger SAs could fire if they were dropped, until transfer safety bars were added to the firing mechanism design to prevent this problem.
Modern revolvers will not fire unless the trigger is pulled, because of a different firing pin design compared with old hammer-mounted firing pins.
So keeping an empty cylinder chamber under a revolver’s hammer is no longer a safety precaution, it just reduces firepower.
Keeping an empty in the first cylinder to index upon a trigger pull means you have to pull the trigger twice to make the gun go bang. That is similar to keeping a DA pistol chamber-empty, but your comment is the first time I have ever read about doing this for safety.
May 4th, 2012 at 12:27 pm
A’yup, that’s exactly my point Mikee.
I’ve never heard of the “first cylinder to index” precaution, but I’ve heard alot about the empty chamber for a self-loader DA.
I mean why do some consider a revolver “safe” to carry with one in the first chamber to fire but an auto-loader with the same trigger pull and lack of safety isn’t?
The ammusing part is that you can “unsafe” that empty chamber in a DA revolver alot easier than the DA self loader example.
May 4th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
Mariner’s Three Rules of Handguns:
1. A handgun you can’t actually put your hands on is useless.
2. A handgun that’s not loaded is useless.
3. A handgun without a round in the chamber is not loaded.
May 4th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Wow Ben, just to be safe you could carry the gun disassembled too. With fast draw times from concealment being 1.5 seconds, you’ve managed to make it a 4 second process to get a shot on target. That’s more than enough time for someone to cover 50 feet and certainly enough time for even the most inept thug to have you held at gunpoint or shoot you before you chamber a round.
Wow Andy, with having your gun drawn all the time with your finger on the trigger taking 0 seconds you’ve managed to make it a 1.5 second process to get a shot on target. That’s more than enough time for someone to cover 10 feet and certainly more than enough time for even the most inept thug to have you held at gunpoint or shoot you in the back before you can draw.
Your argument sucks.
Mariner, unless God gave you your rules, they are dumb crap that you made up.
May 4th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
On another note, Andy, you’re saying it takes 2.5 seconds to chamber a round?
May 4th, 2012 at 5:21 pm
With the old SA revolvers, they could easily fire if dropped, but you also had to pull the hammer back manually to take your shot, which would index the first round. No problem. Enter the 1911. Also single action, but you can have the hammer back with the thumb safety on, and it’s no more likely to fire. Thumbing the safety, even left handed, is a lot faster than racking the whole slide. I +1 on a 1911 action for EDC. Also, when it’s in the holster, I have trouble considering things “swept” just because they’re covered by the bore.
May 4th, 2012 at 7:57 pm
One hopes you have two hands available to chamber a round under pressure. One also hopes you don’t short stroke the action and cause a jam. One also hopes you be able to do this fast enough to keep from being shot/stabbed/grappled/thrown/slugged/etc…
Now I can see if your gun is not drop safe it might be a very good idea to go chamber loaded, but for all of the rest of us just wear a good holster that covers the trigger guard and KYFFOTFT. And when you don or doff the gun, do it with the holster still encompassing the gun. Do that and you will be fine
Notice revolver packers carry chamber loaded all time and have no probles.
May 4th, 2012 at 11:46 pm
Great way to win friends and influence people!
May 5th, 2012 at 2:40 am
@ Ben:
If you do not feel safe with your current 1911, switch to one that has a firing pin safety, such as Colt’s Series 80 has.
If this is not sufficient, then why use a 1911, and handicap yourself by turning it into a two-hand required gun? This is what the Army did with the 1911, requiring soldiers to carry hammer down on an empty chamber (after mandating that JMB/Colt add the thumb safety, which can’t be utilized with the hammer down).
You could carry the 1911 in Condition 2: hammer down with a chambered round. You then have the option of cocking with either hand. Here again, the Series 80 adds a separate layer of safety.
You have options. Quite a few of them, including some you, yourself, mention. Sticking with Condition 3 seems to be a poor choice. A bit antiquated, in fact.
May 5th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
ben,
They’re “Mariner’s Rules”. If God had given them to me I’d have labeled them “God’s Rules”.
May 5th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
I am the safety. Finger off the trigger and off the hammer until it’s on target.
My father took a torch and file to his grip and magazine safeties.
But then, I have a ten-year old. Maybe her little fingers cannot pull back the slide.
Keep your slide back, slam in the magazine, release the slide lock.
And, BTW, if you are afraid to have your children someplace where you need a ready to shoot gun, you might not want to have brought them there in the first place.