Less than
Are less-lethal options really a good thing? They’re another tool and can be used for different things. Trouble with those different things is that now a lot of police officers use them for compliance instead of for defense or control.
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May 14th, 2012 at 9:38 am
All things considered, I’d rather be O/C’ed or tased than get a broken arm or concussion at the bottom of a pigpile.
Of course, “none of the above” is my first choice.
May 14th, 2012 at 9:54 am
If you’re Matt Dillon, 6’6″, 250 lbs, a punch or a seven and a half inch Peacemaker barrel upside the head will work. But most of the cops, around here at least, are not like that.
I agree with Tam.
May 14th, 2012 at 11:17 am
There are lots of problems with “less-lethal”. Cops need to be told that less-lethal doesn’t mean you won’t “kill by accident” during a less-lethal use of force. There have been several hundred heart-stoppages caused by Tasers, and right here in Stumptown, a cop fired what he thought was a beanbag at a non-compliant arrested, but it was real buckshot instead.
When I started as a cop, we had knuckles, sticks and Mace. Most cops didn’t trust Mace, like most don’t trust OC now. Use of batons required writing a Force Report, which was automatically routed to the hated Internal Affairs Division, so cops usually left the batons in the a car, too.
That leaves knuckles and arm strength, and we used them a lot. Old School, sure, but we not only had less exposure to Internal Affairs, but almost no chance of unnecessary harm to arrestees, either.
May 14th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Sure, rivrdog, but half my class at the Chicago Police Academy were women. I’m a 6’2″-plus farmboy, but the girls were there because the city had to comply with affirmative action. What do they do? And then doctors tell us that choke holds cause strokes or even death.
You know … I have good manners and a pleasant demeanor and I don’t fight with cops.
I am not attacking you. Just stating my version of reality.
May 14th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Taser use needs to have the same level of scrutiny as other weapons. Currently it does not. (And, yes, I have been Tased and sprayed, certified in both) My view is that Tasers have become a crutch used too often to avoid good police work, and that there is a good reason we once required certain physical attributes for police candidates.
May 14th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
I hardly know where to start.
“I would assume that if the Taser was significant deterrent to violence, we wouldn’t see the Taser used nearly as much as we do (unless it is being miss-used).” Really, the risk of capital punishment doesn’t seem to do much to deter murder, nor does the risk of going to jail seem to reduce crime. So you proceed from a false premise.
“1) Un-intentional injury/death – Tasers and other tools are all “Less-leathal” tools not “Non-lethal” tools. An officer can not know the physical history of the suspect to know if they have heart problems or drug use that may cause the suspect to die during its use.
While officers are far better trained to deploy Taser than a normal citizen, the chaos of arrest can create many factors that officer needs to consider prior to its use. Can the probes be safely fired at the suspect? How will the subject fall?” In many cases this is true. Just as officers don’t know if someone suffers from ostroporosis before striking them with a baton or asthma before using pepper spray. If a subject is resistive or combative injuries
(and sadly deaths) sometimes occur no matter the type of force is used. Does that mean officers should stop arresting people? Often there is no good way to control a suspect, you simply pick the least worst option.
“2) Public perception – Due to the movies there are many people who question why a LEO or CCW permit holder don’t shoot the attacker in the arm/leg/big toe to stop them. This is compounded when they perceive that there was a less-lethal option available. If an officer justifiably uses lethal force they will be forced to defend why they chose not to use the Taser to the court, their friends and their families. This puts the officer on the defensive, when they actually need support.” Officers can’t help what the public, hell they seem to think officers are a bunch of lazy, brutal, corrupt racists now. Their friends and famlies will know and understand they did what they believed reasonable in the circumstance.
“3) Personal perception – The use of deadly force should always be an option of last resort, but over time I believe it is natural to think about the situation and ask what-if I did something different. I can not imagine the torment an officer would experience if they didn’t attempt a potentially non-lethal method 1st… even if it could have meant their death or that of their partner or innocent by standers.” Which you can’t imagine the torment most officers go through after a shooting anyway. In the end, you have to do what seems reasonable, period. You should know that by the time you finish the academy. If you aren’t comfortable with that, you’re in the wrong line of work.
“In a violent encounter with a suspect the hesitation that could be caused by attempting to reduce these liabilities could be lethal to the officer or others.” Sometimes, officers die regardless
of how well they handle a call, the suspect always has the 1st move. And at the end of the day, suspects dictate what happens to themselves.
May 14th, 2012 at 5:58 pm
And FYI, Charlotte has had Tasers back in the field for several months. A simple web search would have told WTBGU that.