SYG Video
Man confronts loud party goers, takes a gun and a camera. Both sides do lots of stupid things and someone ends up with a case of dead. The man shooting recorded the whole thing and you can see that video here.
You know, this would ordinarily be a clear cut case. Cops show up, see 47 year-old man having to defend himself from a group of angry younger men. Except the video doesn’t really show it that way.
Thoughts?
June 8th, 2012 at 9:49 am
As I posted on the God, Gals, Guns, Grub Facebook page:
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“A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” ~Proverbs 15:1
Note: If you carry a gun, avoid trouble like the Plague…
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Dann in Ohio
June 8th, 2012 at 9:53 am
Hard to tell what is going on. Were police on the scene when this happens?
June 8th, 2012 at 9:55 am
I can’t see the case for self defense, he went onto their property armed, the article evens states he was in their driveway when he fired. He was not invited,and went of his own accord, even in the 2:46 seconds of video, he ample time to retreat to his own property.
Now suffice to say if the party folks would have been a bit cooler headed, could have gone inside and called 911, and had him arrested for public menacing. At least under Ohio law you cannot be the first aggressor, then claim self defense, if things go haywire, now once things started getting out of hand, if he had retreated to his property, and they became aggressive SYG would apply.
June 8th, 2012 at 9:55 am
Its certainly a sticky case.
The big point we can’t lose site of is the drunks are 100% in the wrong. They were breaking the law and escalating violence, as well as generally being angry assholes.
The shooter kept his cool, and only shot when directly engaged by a disparity of force and threat of serious violence.
Where it gets messy is it does appear that he was standing his ground and waiting for a non-violent situation to turn violent.
Of course we don’t see how this all started, as there’s talk that he flashed his piece, or advertised he was armed when voicing his complaint (that’s a no-no).
But just looking at the video it looks like a clean shoot, and if that’s the case I hope he’s acquitted.
That all being said I’d rather walk away and be branded as a coward and watch the cops ignore the obvious violations from the safety of my home, rather than try to defend my actions in a court of law and have my name in the paper.
June 8th, 2012 at 10:01 am
As I said, even Marines believe in tactical withdrawal to await reinforcements.
This situation was messed up from both sides.
June 8th, 2012 at 10:19 am
Play stupid games , win stupid prizes .
June 8th, 2012 at 10:20 am
They said the guy was threatening them with a gun. Was that just him OCing or was that him having it drawn and in his hand? It’s a bit unclear.
If the guy was standing on the street, which it looks like he was, then he’s probably good to go. He was incredibly irresponsible and he should have let the cops handle it since there was no immediate threat, but it doesn’t LOOK like he was breaking any laws.
June 8th, 2012 at 10:23 am
He was in their driveway? It doesn’t look like he was threatening them, so they don’t have a SYG defense nor a self-defense defense against this guy since he was in their driveway.
However, he’s a dumbass for refusing to leave their driveway, if that’s the case.
June 8th, 2012 at 10:38 am
Where he was standing will probably be discussed at length, as will whether he was merely armed or had the gun in his hand.
Drinking or not, if someone comes on your property armed and refuses to leave when asked to do, I can’t see how you’re the one in the wrong. Even if your music is too loud.
No favors done for the RKBA here, whether the shooter is convicted or not.
June 8th, 2012 at 10:46 am
From the start of the video it doesn’t seem the shooter has done anything illegal. He is not an agressor, it appears this all takes place on a public street (in front of the driveway of the homeowner), and he doesn’t have to retreat (that was the entire idea behind the SYG law in the first place).
If the shooter was on a public street, I don’t see anything done wrong here. Its not the smart move, he wasn’t prepared to handle this, but we cannot place the blame on someone who hasn’t broken any laws & caused the shooting, when clearly the other crossed the line & broke the law. The shot fired was a response to that line crossed & law broken.
We cannot blame the shooter when he is responding to an unprovoked (as we don’t see, or know for sure if the weapon is mentioned or brandished) illegal act of violence against him.
June 8th, 2012 at 10:57 am
Plus 1 with Farm Dad.
June 8th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
The shooter should have stayed on his own property. If he was in the street when the incident occurred, he may be able to claim SYG. But if he was on someone else’s property, I don’t think he has any ability to claim he was acting under SYG.
June 8th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
Counting the things this guy did wrong or may have done wrong:
Left the safety of his home when he could have called the cops, which put him in a bad situation tactically and legally. Worse, he may have killed the man on the man’s property (I say may because that part’s a little unclear)
Confronted a group of superior numbers, any one of whom could have been armed. That’s just dumb tactics.
Apparently showed his gun. At the beginning of the video a drunk guy says he flashed the gun/drew the gun. More bad legal juju.
Nobody was threatening the guy’s life or his family. This all started over loud music. He overreacted. Either he had history with this neighbor or this guy was just wound too tight.
June 8th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Do inferior tactics add up to a murder charge though?
There’s things you should or should not do, that you should not stand your ground in a situation like that as tactically unsound doesn’t add up to a chargeable offense.
He, by appearances asked them to turn it down, not ordered, not threatened, asked. the drunks appear to have been offended at the request AND the fact that he was armed.
Going over there armed, would in some cases be advisable. Simply being armed does not equate to a threat.
June 8th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
Montieth, I don’t have an opinion on how the legal ruling will go. I just know that no matter how the jury decides I don’t want to do the things that guy did.
June 8th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
+1 Les.
From what I’ve seen (which isn’t much from a dark video) it LOOKS like he might be in the right barring something big like a brandishing.
But I don’t carry a gun because I want to shoot a rowdy drunk, I carry a gun because I want to GO HOME safe.
I would have gone home and let the PD handle the mess, and file a complaint if they didn’t.
June 14th, 2012 at 10:41 am
Call the cops, call the landlord. If you want peace and quiet, let a third party handle it. If you want to make an enemy, go confront the noise-maker yourself.