Obamacare stands, market reacts
Also, seems it was more politically advantageous to Obama for it to be struck down. If I were conspiratorially minded (and I am), I wonder if Roberts just handed the election to folks with Rs after their name. As Mu said: Weirdest decision in years, 4 say you can, 4 say you can’t, and Roberts says you can, but not because of what you think but because of what I think. It’s one opinion with 8 dissenters.
Of course, Roberts also says it’s not the court’s job to save us from ourselves.
June 28th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
At first I was speechless, now I’m starting to think your idea that Roberts just handed the election to the R team may be right.
June 28th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
I hope so too. I have been impressed with Roberts, and this just baffles me.
But it is a mighty damn big gamble for him to take if that is what it was.
June 28th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
Or maybe he has just gone “Galt” to speed up the process.
June 28th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
If your theory is not true, the Court is participating in the destruction of its’ legitimacy. If your theory is true, the Court is participating in its’ destruction. Either way, this portends the ever-faster metamorphosis of the Court into a political organization. The end result of either path is the destruction of America as we know it. Whether Obama wins or loses, his goal will have been accomplished.
June 28th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
You might have been right if this was an October surprise.
It’ll be out of the attention span of the average American well before the election, and during the debates the Obummer can remind everyone that the very popular parts of the bill (read: the stuff other than the mandate) survived, and it was the same stuff the other guy also used to support, and he’s making an ass of himself pretending otherwise and twisting himself into a rhetorical pretzel.
Romney trying to spin this is going to remind people of Sarah Palin’s answer to the global warming question.
June 28th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
Nah. Roberts has just been around Washington long enough to “evolve” like so many other Republican nominated justices. See also his vote on Arizona immigration.
June 28th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
I wonder what health insurance company stocks are doing…betcha they’re up. After all, they just got reassured by the SCOTUS that the money train will continue.
June 28th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
So people won’t remember this decision in 4 months, but they remember Palin’s answers to questions 4 years ago?
June 28th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
Insurance Company stocks are down. Their days are numbered. While more people will be getting health insurance, its going to be unhealthy people getting it (with the pre-existing conditions). The Healthy people will be paying the “tax” rather than buying insurance because the tax is cheaper.
The revenue from the healthy people is needed to offset the losses the insurance companies will suffer treating those with the pre-existing conditions.
Insurance companies will HAVE to raise their premiums to stay in business, which will drive customers to the government option which will be cheaper, because they Gov’t doesn’t have to turn a profit to stay in business…they just print more money.
June 28th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
So…we can now be taxed for actions. Its NOT a penalty. A tax.
So, since the 2nd Amendment includes elements about being part of a militia, and a militia is part of the collective security of the nation, and even though the government no longer calls up the militia, nothing has relieved us of the duty of being prepared and trained to use firearms….so we must tax those that refuse to buy firearms.
June 28th, 2012 at 1:19 pm
“Roberts also says it’s not the court’s job to save us from ourselves.”
Roberts was totally right to say this. He’s saying that you can’t have buyers remorse over the actions of the people you left and expect the court to rule bases on public opinion. BHO and the congress of that time was elected by the people in fair and open elections. This is what happens when you blindly elect a candidate. You have to deal with the fallout of the decisions of the people you elected. Now, with that said, we’ll see how the 2012 election shapes up and what the three day polling numbers look like on Sunday. We’ll see what Romney’s numbers look like in NC, FL, PA, OH, WI, and VA. There is very little BHO support in PA outside of Philly, Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Reading, and Allentown. When you hit the middle T, people are starting to get behind the idea of putting BHO out of work with a Romney vote in Nov. You’re going to see the PA polling putting PA as an in play state.
June 28th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Wfwhatever: people do tend to remember hilariously stupid things, you’re right.
But that the news cycle and the short lived attention span of the average ‘Murrican tend to lean against the idea that this will still be a barn burner in November seems relatively uncontroversial.
Keep up that wishful thinking though, it’ll save you from doing anything productive.
June 28th, 2012 at 1:54 pm
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-28/tenet-gains-while-insurers-fall-on-health-law-ruling.html
It’s apparently the hospital stocks that are heading skyward.
June 28th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
Increase the size of the SCOTUS.
Add three conservative judges. Make sure they are young.
And change the Ninth’s territory from the west coast to Johnston Atoll.
June 28th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
Cargosquid: What did you think the NFA tax was about?
$200 1934 dollars = $15,000 2012 dollars.
June 28th, 2012 at 2:05 pm
And congress displayed its hatred for Slavery during the early 1800’s by putting a whopping excise tax on exported cotton.
Congress has been using tax to control behavior for a long time.
Not that I agree with either, but yea, there is plenty of precedent for this crap.
June 28th, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Yes, hospital stocks are doing well because lots of people, who don’t usually go to the Dr, will be now.
They will be profitable in the short-run as lots of people with pre-existing conditions will be going for treatment (good for them). Also, twentysomethings will go more often because they will be insured on their parents’ plans now until they are 26, whereas before they had to come off at 23, and typically went uninsured because they believe themselves to be invincible (or they don’t have jobs because of the Oconomy).
Eitherway, more patients make Hospitals more profitable. More patients make insurance companies less profitable, unless they have a lot of healthy customers offsetting those losses, which as I mentioned before, isn’t happening.
It is a short run deal, however, because once the .Gov becomes the only provider of health insurance (single payor and all that), they will simply reduce how much they pay out for services, and begin cutting back allowable treatment for certain unhealthy people. They have to, they are broke.
Ultimately, medicine will become un-profitable, just as it is in other nations with socialized medical. When that happens, The Best and The Brightest will go into better paying fields, like government work.
The creation of Accountable Care Organizations are mandated for this year as well by Obamacare, which will help hosipitals be more profitable in the short run. That was on hold a bit pending the SCOTUS decision.
The Act was designed to give a short-term pop to make it popular, then it puts the screws to the system in 2014 and later, once Fearless Leader has already been re-elected.
I work in the healthcare and insurance industry, and so have some insight.
June 28th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
It’s a gamble because the Hegemon in DC will want to keep it as it’s another ratchet-tooth in the power-curve and they don’t particularly care if it’s overturned or not but the ratchet of Unlimited Power doesn’t release.
The Court may be playing to it’s destruction or it’s playing an age-old Vaudeville joke, and since we insist that we don’t have an Aristocracy, the joke is called The Judicicrats.
June 28th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
You know, this SCOTUS Ruling today just goes to prove what you passed along yesterday, Unc : Entire Societies can and have gone stark raving batshit fucking insane.
June 28th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Told you guys: First Black Prez gets to do whatever he wants ’cause every white person in DC is deathly scared of being called a racist.
Today was a clear example of that truism. The FEDGOV did NOT argue that the mandate was a tax. Roberts MADE THAT UP — to save Obama’s legacy. He twisted the entire government case, re-wrote the government’s case, to save the First Black President from potential total failure (without O-Care, Obama’s legacy is ashes).
By the way, don’t listen to anybody telling you that “Roberts is an evil genius” or that “Roberts limited the power of the Commerce Clause”. Those pundits are pissing on your head and telling you it’s rain. Plain and simple: the Roberts Court has now established as precedent that it is constitutional to tax you for NOT doing something the government wants you to do, something (health insurance coverage) that is not an explicit enumerated power of the federal government (the Militia Act falls under the “common defense”, so it IS different).
Roberts left the mandate, but spun it as something else. Nothing has changed: you’re still either going to have to get insurance or pay $200 to the government. The IRS will collect it (as was the case when it was just a “mandate”) and you’re still going to go to jail if you don’t comply (as was the case when it was just a “mandate”). Whether it is called a “tax” or a “penalty” is an exercise in mental masturbation.
There is now NOTHING preventing the government from imposing a tax on you for: NOT buying an American car (the “GM Tax”); NOT buying government bonds equal to 50% of your IRA (the “Patriotic Bond Tax”); NOT buying and installing at least one solar panel on your house (the “Renewable Energy Installation Tax”); NOT purchasing at least one airplane ticket per year (the “US Airlines Restoration Act”); NOT opening at least one retirement account for “investment” in the stock market (the “Safe Retirement and Redistribution Tax”); and so on. The possibilities are, now, endless.
Make no mistake: the People of this country have been dealt an unmitigated defeat (and half of them are cheering their own enslavement).
June 28th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
The good news: Roberts just gutted the Commerce Clause and unmasked the ACA as the biggest tax increase on the middle class in history.
The bad news: Patients have just become lists of diagnosis codes to be dealt with by highly trained technicians versed in the use of diagnostic and treatment algorithms. “Providers” practicing outside of “evidence-based guidelines” will be subject to reductions in reimbursement across the board, regardless of outcomes.
(In plain English, you’re nothing but a number now, and I’m not going to do anything that’s going to get my payments slashed. I have bills to pay and I’m not going to be able to do that if I piss off the Feds by paying too much attention to your complaints or working too hard to individualize your care. It’s End Game for my profession and I’m sorry to report that I now practice to serve the State, not my patients.)
June 28th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
@HL,
No, more patients do not make doctors offices or hospitals profitable. More PAYING patients make that happen. Those on government plans, whether Medicare, Medicaid, or any other, actually cost hospitals and doctors offices money to treat. The current rate is somewhat variable, but Medicare pays around 50% of actual charges, most state Medicaid plans pay less than 25% for adult visits and 50-70% for OB and pediatric visits.
It costs me about $20 for materials to apply a fiberglass cast, (or it did last time I checked), the state pays me $11 for those materials. They then pay a one time fee for the diagnosis and application of the cast. Followup visits, with reapplication of the cast if necessary, are not eligible for reimbursement.
As of 7:15 AM Pacific Time I am looking for a new occupation.
June 28th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
@HL, I agree with the rest of your statements, I just think there won’t even be a honeymoon period. Every small/medium hospital I have data for is sliding rapidly into insolvency, whether public or privately owned, because of the burden placed on them by Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement and paperwork, (which requires more and more staffing who have nothing to do with patients.)
June 28th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
Ayup:
“If Congress can constitutionally create a mandate for individuals to purchase healthcare, then Congress can create a mandate for individuals to purchase financial securities…what’s stopping Congress from mandating that patriotic Americans with any spare cash dump it into government securities (or even flagging equities)?”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-forget-broccoli
June 28th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
Roberts? I always thought that son of a bitch had too big a grin on his face. Heads we have Kennedy against us, tails we have Roberts against us, it’s a 5/4 tag team, lose/lose situation for us. So much for Republican appointees.
However, we now have motivation, and a presidential election coming soon. What can we do with that? How big can we win? Yeah, I know Romney hasn’t looked much like a win, but maybe he’ll grow some balls out of this. It’s his moment to lead now.
June 28th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
Hey Bill, Yes, I agress PAYING patients, which is what the investors in hospital stocks is assuming they will be.
Sorry for not being more clear.
I can also see something like every American has to have a BMI of under 12% or they will have to pay a tax.
It is coming.
June 28th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
It is a short run deal, however, because once the .Gov becomes the only provider of health insurance (single payor and all that), they will simply reduce how much they pay out for services, and begin cutting back allowable treatment for certain unhealthy people. They have to, they are broke.
I gather you’ve been to Canada. 😛
However, we now have motivation, and a presidential election coming soon. What can we do with that?
You think you’re going to vote your way out of this, do you?
It won’t happen. With each delay, more gets implemented, and the tumor gets deeper. By the time January 2013 rolls around, it’s going to be in deep enough that the argument against repeal will consists of 24/7 stories about the disruption it will cause, the people left out in the cold who thought they would get treatment – and yes, they’ll even do pity fories for private practice, all the medical staff whose businesses and careers were under threat because they spend money to be ready for Obamacare and now they’ll lose all that.
I can also see something like every American has to have a BMI of under 12% or they will have to pay a tax.
That’s been true since safety belts/helmet laws/what have you have been passed; how many times have you heard arguments against those things in favor of personal freedom rebutted with “but we all have to pay for it when you wipe out/crash”?
I’m guessing that the only reason why the costs of ND’s hasn’t been used that way is because gunnies are such absolute safety freaks already nowadays, without any laws (to their credit).
June 28th, 2012 at 6:05 pm
@HL
Yep, the BMI thing is coming. I’m already having to complete company paperwork that says that the patient complies with 4 out of 5 of the following:
BP less than 135/85
Total Cholesterol less than 180
Blood Glucose less than 105
BMI less than 28
Non-Smoker
So all the overweight people have to quit smoking, the smokers have to lose weight, or else!
Only about 1 in 3 factory workers over 40 are meeting the criteria, so their portion of their health care premium will go up about 50% until they do.
June 28th, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Of course, there’s very little Romney support in PA outside of Philly, Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Reading, and Allentown given you just eliminated 80% of the state’s population.
June 28th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Still sucks.
June 28th, 2012 at 8:41 pm
A reminder:
http://youtu.be/Kb6sytN-ahY
June 28th, 2012 at 9:41 pm
Roberts has always been pro big government.. He always rules toward the government having the power.. He does not let politics get involved with that part of his personality..
June 28th, 2012 at 9:52 pm
It’s kind of hard to say they can’t save us from ourselves, yet even the congressidiots themselves won’t read the bill, so how are we supposed to?
June 29th, 2012 at 9:39 am
Ultimately, medicine will become un-profitable, just as it is in other nations with socialized medical. When that happens, The Best and The Brightest will go into better paying fields, like government work.