Tragic
Cops go knock on wrong door in the middle of the night, home owner answers the door armed. He’s shot to death. Can’t blame the guy for answering the door armed, it’s what I’d do if I had to answer. But mostly, I just wouldn’t answer.
21 Responses to “Tragic”
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July 17th, 2012 at 9:02 am
Read the post, read the article, read the comment.
And it all keeps coming back to the same thing… THE COPS HAD THE WRONG HOUSE! As much as I support Law Enforcement and want them to stay safe, it was THEIR screw-up that caused this man’s death, and NOT the fact that he had or allegedly pointed a gun at them!
July 17th, 2012 at 9:37 am
This is one of the reasons I’m NOT a supporter of modern Law Enforcement.
They kill innocent people all the day time and so rarely suffer any real consequences that when they do, THAT makes the news more than their killing of the innocent.
“Just doing your job” is much like “Just following orders”.
July 17th, 2012 at 9:42 am
I don’t open the door for anyone I don’t already know after dark, regardless of who they say they are. It’s already saved my butt once. If someone claimed to be police at that time of night, I still wouldn’t open the door unless they’re in uniform, and I see some blue flashing lights from marked cars on the driveway.
July 17th, 2012 at 9:51 am
If you need a gun in your hand, you don’t need to open the door. If you are sure you can open the door, you don’t need a gun in your hand.
That lesson can be extracted from this tragic situation.
July 17th, 2012 at 9:53 am
(and understand I mean gun in hand. You should always have a gun on your person)
July 17th, 2012 at 10:23 am
Is anyone bothered by the fact that soldiers in a war zone usually have to wait until fired upon before they can start shooting, but civilian police officers here in the US don’t have the same operating procedures? Especially when there is a high likelihood of a misunderstanding – like knocking on someones door in the middle of the night.
July 17th, 2012 at 10:27 am
Had this happen to me once – at about three o’dark in the morning.
Lots of noise outside the bedroom window followed by knock on rear door.
Fortunately I have LOTS of outdoor lights. I answered the door with a 2″.357 concealed behind my leg him. There was a local plainclothes police officer standing back about five feet from the door(well out in the light) holding his badge up above his head.
No harm, no foul.
They had been chasing a drunk who had run down my side yard before they caught him. They just wanted to let me know what was going on.
July 17th, 2012 at 10:38 am
SWAT teams are almost always ex-military.
Yes, they cannot shot first. This is a pretty clear case of wrongful death. We need to see how it plays out before going off the deep end on laying blame.
I would agree with Robb, if you need to have a gun in hand answering the door, don’t answer the door.
July 17th, 2012 at 10:39 am
Robb Allen, so what happens when the folks outside the door at 0 dark thirty kick in the door?
July 17th, 2012 at 12:23 pm
TomcatTCH… you shoot them. The bottom line is you should call 911, especially if they’re claiming to be officers. Dispatch can confirm that there are officers outside the door.
Interestingly in this case the officers wouldn’t be confirmed as they were at the wrong house. So if and when they kicked in the door, the home owner would actually have extra justification on his side.
He had conflicting reports of their status as officers. The dispatcher carries more weight because it could be considered a trusted source.
Robb is saying specifically, if you feel so scared you have to have a gun in hand, don’t open the door. Which I happen to agree with. Them breaking down the door adds to your reasonable fear of why you had to defend yourself.
July 17th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Barron Barnett, agree with your points, with a minor correction. In this specific case, the cops weren’t responding to a particular address, they were simply knocking on the door near a particular vehicle. The suspect’s motorcycle was parked near the door of the victim. Dispatchers may have been able to confirm the officer’s location.
But, assuming that officers are afraid to announce their presence from outside the door, are they going to cooperate while a dispatcher confirms their presence by phone. If there is an actual risk, does it matter how the person inside learns that it is police knocking at his door?
July 17th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
What I find disturbing is that police did not know they shot the wrong guy for 1.5 hours which tells us they had no clue what the guy they were looking for looked like…
July 17th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
This can be construed as a tactical issue, but it’s more than that. How come the right to keep and bear arms merits summary execution? Why do we have police trained to shoot any private citizen who has a gun?
We won that Supreme Court decision; it’s an individual right, but people are still being killed by government agents for nothing more than exercising that right. This should not be resolved by a thousand lawsuits over a thousand dead gun owners. We shouldn’t have to peel back the fingers of tyranny of a thousand police departments, one at a time, while we get slaughtered along the way.
What good is the right to keep and bear arms if government can shoot us dead for nothing more than exercising it? They’re supposed to be public servants, not public murderers. Gun owners need legal protection from this sort of behavior. One would think that murder would already be illegal, but apparently not so much when the government does it.
July 17th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
I’m sorry, but does anything think that 911 can save them?
If the answer is as it should be, “NO”, then why would you call the already over loaded 911 system first to report something that hasn’t happened yet?
And that’s just with regard to the late night banging on the door without shouting “police” part of this.
Bad guys have taken to shouting “Police” while kicking in doors.
How exactly are we supposed to address this problem? Calling 911 is a hilarious answer. I’d like a serious one.
I’ve had a late night knocks, sitting on the phone is the last thing that crossed my mind, it doesn’t address the problem in any way, shape or form.
July 17th, 2012 at 6:32 pm
This is why I always say, if at all possible, have a shooting tunnel at the doors of your house. That way if anyone does break in your door, you have a nice funneled FoF with a bullet-resistant(if not bullet-proof) barrier for you to shoot from behind.
Oh yeah, steel doors help too. 🙂
July 17th, 2012 at 6:33 pm
My J .38 is in a IWB with clip on. To answer the door I just clip on the holster (I wear a t-shirt and jogging pants at home) and no one can see my .38 when answering the door, cop or not.
But, if I had my Glock… I’d just put my gunhand (with the Glock) behind my back when answering and my foot keeping the door from being forced.
July 17th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
“Is anyone bothered by the fact that soldiers in a war zone usually have to wait until fired upon before they can start shooting”
Not nearly as much as I am bothered by the fact that you think this is a fact.
July 18th, 2012 at 7:29 am
Kirk: That is fairly close to Obama’s current ROE.
If the Jihadi throws down the gun and walks off, they are expected to let him go.
Pretty disgusting.
July 18th, 2012 at 7:35 am
As a matter of job evaluation: the police should not be able to enter into evidence anything about the victim being armed, unless there is overwhelming independent evidence demonstrating that to be true.
The default assumption should be that they killed him, found his gun afterward, and planted it on the body. If they can’t prove otherwise, they should lose their jobs and be barred from any employment with any government agency.
July 18th, 2012 at 10:02 am
Interesting. According to this report (http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/07/18/48483.htm), the original attempted murder suspect (Brown) was an ex-cop. I wonder if those guys over on policeone.com know that yet.
July 18th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
Kristopher: yes, current ROE, but not ok as a blanket statement.