Profling and OC
So, a gun activist was targeted because she was wearing an NRA hat and that means she’s strapped:
The current case boiled down to Sutterfield’s word against an officers. Sutterfield testified her jacket was tucked behind her holster from the time she left home that night.
Milwaukee Police Officer Cassandra Benitez testified that when she first looked into Sutterfield’s car from the passenger side, with a flashlight, she did not notice the 9mm Glock on Sutterfield’s hip, despite being extra alert to a possible weapon after seeing an National Rifle Association cap on the backseat.
Benitez testified that her training told her that presence of NRA gear makes it more likely the person might have a gun.
When she re-approached Sutterfield’s car a few moments later, Benitez testified, and made the same inspection, she saw the gun, now exposed in front of Sutterfield’s jacket, within a couple seconds.
Benitez and her partner testified they noticed Sutterfield’s yellow Hyundai parked close to Sherman Perk at about 12:30 a.m on Nov. 11, thought it unusual, and pulled up behind her to ask some questions.
Sutterfield explained that she was using the free Wi-Fi from the shop, and had an open, powered-on computer in her lap. But she refused to identify herself. She testified Tuesday she felt she didn’t need to because she wasn’t doing anything wrong.
That made the police more suspicious, so they went back to their squad car, ran the license plate and then each walked back up to Sutterfield’s car. Once Benitez said there was a gun, tensions rose.
Officer Jeffrey Dolkiewicz testified that he then asked Sutterfield if she had a concealed carry permit. She said she didn’t need one because she was carrying openly.
I guess the word of the police not seeing it was not enough.
July 26th, 2012 at 8:09 am
Unc,
The link is to Bill O.
July 26th, 2012 at 8:57 am
There’s still a lot of debate as to what constitutes “open” and “concealed” in a car, and the prevailing legal opinions on the state seem too say that if it’s on your belt in a regular open carry setup, it’s no longer in plain view and is “concealed.”
Plus it’s Milwaukee, so they love going after anybody carrying anyway.
July 26th, 2012 at 9:23 am
In WA state you do need a CPL to carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle, regardless of the fact that open carry outside a vehicle requires no permit. The reasoning is the vehicle itself is concealing the firearm from the view of people outside the vehicle.
July 26th, 2012 at 10:15 am
Where in the Second Amendment does it say anything about open vs. concealed?
Trumped-up restrictions amount to the government playing “Simon Says” with the law, and then playing “Gotcha!” when they can claim that you carried openly when you were supposed to carry concealed, or vice versa.
July 26th, 2012 at 10:46 am
Delaware OC recommends dash holsters when OCing in a car for just this reason. Another similar problem is OC at a restaurant because tables can block sightlines. Make sure it’s visible from most angles.
July 26th, 2012 at 10:58 am
Chas, that’s how Indiana’s laws go. For carry there isn’t concealed versus open it’s just carry. So anyplace CC is okay, OC is okay too.
Which is nice in that it removes the whole peakaboo gun riddles.
Though that means you need a permit to OC.
July 26th, 2012 at 11:42 am
IIRC they tried to hit her with hacking related charges too because the business was closed and the owner of the business stepped up and confirmed that she had permission to use his Wi-Fi.
July 26th, 2012 at 11:57 am
And Oregon law defined any pistol in a belt holster that has any portion of the holster not covered by clothing to be open carry. Period.
Looks like some laws need clarification for cops being deliberately stupid.
July 26th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
So let me get this straight: In some places, you can be arrested while legally carrying concealed if the wind blows your jacket open, momentarily exposing your handgun to public view. In some other places, you can be arrested while legally carrying openly if the officer does not see your weapon upon initial contact.
OK, I think I got it.
July 26th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Makes me glad I live in Texas. As long as you are legal to own, you are legal to conceal in your vehicle.
July 26th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
The absurdity of secular legalism: “We will eradicate all of life’s problems with a law!”
And so, the ambiguous statute sweeps up all manner of benevolent behaviors having nothing to do with the purported purpose of the law: prevent armed crimes. Crimes: those actually immoral acts of thievery and violence.
If your Attorney General there in Milwaukee holds an elected position, vote him OUT. Some idiots actually made a decision to press forward with prosecuting this.
July 26th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
IIRC, the fed SC ruled a couple years ago that profiling by clothing/logo was a no-no, in regard to guns.
July 26th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Great. Now we can go to jail because a cop fails at attention to detail.
July 26th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
So it looks like Wisconsin Cops better get some In-Service Training regarding that State’s New CCW Law before they all get Writer’s Cramp signing Checks for the Counter-Suits they’ll be losing.
July 26th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
Months of possible jail time for exercising a constitutional right? How messed up is that?
You cops out there who go apeshit at the mere thought of an armed citizen? You are definately in the wrong line of work, boys and girls. If you’re THAT pants-shitting afraid of regular Americans, maybe you’re in the wrong country.
And think about this for just a second or two; if someone has an NRA cap, they’re not trying to hide the fact that they’re a gun owner. M’Kay?
July 27th, 2012 at 10:20 am
Could be worse. She could have had a first-aid kit.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/07/was_portland_state_right_in_ex.html