What happens when you try to wipe out the gun culture
In NYC, all bystanders who were shot during the Empire State Building shooting were hit by police officers. When you do your best to get rid of the gun culture, it probably affects training since it is mostly a private enterprise. No market means no service. I can’t say I’m particularly surprised given their past instances of gun handling.
More from Tam, who says:
Come on, Bloomberg: Step in front of a camera and tell us how only the police have the training and professionalism to handle a pistol.
No, instead he’ll blame gun laws in other states.
Update: Calls for more gun control because of the cops. They finally admit it, I guess. Uhm, who’s going to do that training then, Sparky? And it’s amusing since he asserts that if more people were armed, more would have been shot. Well, I dunno. But I’m guessing your average CCWer can out shoot your average NYC cop.
August 26th, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Well, you know that if there was only time to fire up the Homeland Security Grant-Funded Super Dooper Armored Response Vehicle and the SWAT Team, why, no one would have been hurt at all!
After all, it seems Modern Police Procedure in NYC is to have the Street Cops show up and Secure the Perimeter until SWAT arrives. You don’t actually expect them to USE their “Badge of Authority” for any use other than NYPD’s Unconstitutional “Stop and Frisk” Policy, do you?
August 26th, 2012 at 12:28 pm
I was unable to find a Law Enforcement shooting response with as many innocents being shot. This may be a record.
I watched the video and the LEO’s tactics were horrible. I think its because of Stop and Frisk, along with no-gun culture. NYPD has gotten complacent since the majority of Stop and Frisk’s are executed on law abiding citizens.
Just remember, the NYPD are the armed enforcers of gun control.
August 26th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
Mike123, well there is “Battleship Potemkin.”
This is a brilliant PR move, though. It instantly converts every one-on-one revenge murder into a mass shooting spectacle. And it’s all…your…fault, too.
August 26th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Didn’t they shoot 71 times at the guy going for his wallet a couple years ago?
August 26th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
I thought you were supposed to request maniac drop his weapon with a firm voice?
Have a joy joy day!
August 26th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Apparently their ‘training’ consists of 150-200 rounds split into two range periods, of which 50 is practice and 50 are qual (and apparently 70% is considered passing…
August 26th, 2012 at 5:43 pm
Just wait, some NYPD bigwig will state that it’s the victims fault because they should’nt have been there.
August 26th, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Equipment is cheap, training is expensive. This is a case of ‘You get what you pay for’.
August 26th, 2012 at 6:14 pm
The HuffPo piece is written by a blithering idiot with nonexistant “logic”.
August 26th, 2012 at 8:06 pm
You expect anything more from these people?
August 26th, 2012 at 9:48 pm
“I’m guessing your average CCWer can out shoot your average NYC cop.”
I would bet that the average monkey with a machine gun can out shoot NYC firearms instructors.
August 27th, 2012 at 12:26 am
Well, except for Cirillo. I wouldn’t trash talk around him.
August 27th, 2012 at 8:48 am
+1 Bryan S
August 27th, 2012 at 9:38 am
One of my good friends is a police officer in a suburb between Worcester and Boston.
They are given essentially zero training with their sidearms and qualifications are a joke. Budget for practice ammo is basically nothing. My friend is one of the rare ones that pays out of pocket for private training and shoots several hundred pistol rounds a month (he reloads), in addition to skeet and trap.
So its an interesting issue: if safety is so important, you would think that local PD would have at least bi-annual training… but as I am a professional engineer, I pay for training like grad school, license tests, CEUs, etc on my own dime all the time. I think there should be increased expectations on PD and on the officers themselves, something like a CEU system, to insure that the PD is up to snuff with their sidearms. Perhaps offer incentives to officers that prove they hone their skills… of course, that would piss the union off, because then cops that tried harder would get raises faster than their older counterparts that do nothing but have seniority.
August 27th, 2012 at 9:57 am
That’s why Bloomberg needs all New Yorkers disarmed, they might start shooting back at his “finest” the next time.
August 27th, 2012 at 10:18 am
Wouldn’t the standard knee-jerk Bloomberg response to this incident be to place additional NYPD presence around the NYPD? Oh, wait…
August 27th, 2012 at 11:31 am
Folks, next time you’re standing/sitting next to a cop, look at their gear carefully. Look especially for dirt, lint, clothing threads, etc. If most cops don’t even bother to CLEAN their weapons of accumulated debris, what makes anyone think they’re gonna bother to become proficient in their use (with all the work that that entails)?
A cop is the last person I would consult on matters pertaining to marksmanship, firearms maintenance, or firearms safety.
August 27th, 2012 at 11:47 am
Adam, maybe you should let your friend in on that Professional Expenses deduction. What a hell of a test case that would make. I know this accountant…
August 27th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Curiously enough, NJ requires all police officers totlify on all weapon types they are certified to use, every six months (though the course of fire is hardly challenging). Holders of the rare carry permit must do so as well. The local county built themselves a brand-new outdoor range (with a fairly well-used dueling tree sitting in it when I took the “safety class” mandated to let us use the old range across the parking lot on Sunday afternoons), it is apparently booked pretty solid by the various local departments. The county cop who “owns” the range is a self-identified gunnie who regretted not being able to open the range to us more often, and claimed to be lobbying the county council to get more operating hours (I believed him, btw).
There’s the difference between mostly dead and all the way dead right there.
August 27th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
Were the police on full-auto? Is this what happens when we have “assault weapons on the streets”–the only ones of which are usually carried by hired hands?
Yeah, Tam, Mayor Bloomberg may have trouble blaming this one on Tennessee.
August 27th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
Q: when is a mass shooting not a mass shooting?
A: When the police shoot most of the victims…
August 27th, 2012 at 6:12 pm
Jim Cirillo they ain’t.
Sad since when Cirillo was active they taught them how to shoot and use a six shot revolver to get hits.
Now it’s a 16 shot simi-auto and spray-n-pray.
August 29th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
Lost track of who pointed me to this, but:
http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/yxx0w/nypd_officer_ama_all_questions_regarding_12lb/
If the info in the post is accurate, NYC is lucky they didn’t have more people hit; this is- well, ‘terrifying’ kind of fits
August 29th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
Unc:
didn’t you post a link to a story a few weeks ago about the massive rise in crimes committed with guns in Britain?
Something like an 89% increase if memory serves…