Restraining order didn’t work
ATF walked right through that restraining order
Video of ATF raiding Ares Armor despite the restraining order against ATF:
Rumor is that ATF is taking the position that 80% lower receivers with the parts you’re to mill out being a different color makes them some number more than 80% and, thus, they are a firearm instead of a part.
March 15th, 2014 at 6:39 pm
Well, restraining orders don’t stop abusive spouses. I guess we should not be surprised they don’t stop abusive government agencies running amok either.
March 15th, 2014 at 7:16 pm
Probably wasn’t served properly, or if it was served ATF didn’t wait until the date set by the court but went in on its own emergency counter-motion and lifted it. Ex parte TROs, which are not personally served on the restrained party, are mostly not worth the paper they’re written on for a simple reason: You cannot be punished for violating a court order you did not know existed.
March 15th, 2014 at 7:41 pm
The only thing a restraining order does is setup a paper trail of documented abuse that can be used as evidence in a later trial.
March 15th, 2014 at 7:58 pm
According to this post over at Codrea’s, it looks lke ATF accused Ares Armor of making illegal gun sales, and the judge who issued the TRO amended it to say that it did not restrict a lawful criminal investigation. She also ordered AA not to remove or destroy inventory or records pending a hearing on the TRO.
So in other words, this restraining order was even more meaningless than most, in that it didn’t actually restrain ATF from doing a damned thing they wanted – raid/trash the premises; shoot the dog, whatever – as long as they could claim they were conducting an investigation.
*facepalm*
March 15th, 2014 at 7:59 pm
Oh, wait, here’s the post I was talking about:
http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2014/03/atf-accuses-ares-armor-of-illegal-gun.html
*facepalm* again.
March 15th, 2014 at 8:17 pm
Not that its a different color making it some number more than 80%…
The way the law has been interpreted in the past is that when ANYONE (You, I, a foundry, etc.) begins to create a firearm, it can only go to 80% completion without needing a serial number and being treated as a firearm, if that part which is considered a firearm will be sold and released into the general population.
Having been in the manufacturing sector for the better part of my 20’s and 30’s, I can tell you that with polymers, you can’t cast two different colors AT THE SAME TIME.
The only way to do what Ares and EP were doing, is to cast the plastic/polymer lower at 90% or 95% completion, AND THEN pour and fill the trigger well with a different color. Now all that someone needs to do is remove (via sidemill bit, Dremel, knife, pointy steel rod, etc.) the backfilled color.
But the ATF’s interpretation of the law is that the creation of a firearm is followed from its virgin state (ie: a 10″ x 4″ x 2.5″ solid block of something) and then you create the firearm from that.
Taking it to 90%, and then backfilling it and claiming that its now 80% complete was a gamble on the part of Ares and EP, and they lost.
In other words, you can’t overdo it, then try to reverse it a little to claim that you *fixed* it to make it 80%. At the point where the lower was a little more than 80% complete, it required a Class 07 license to manufacture, and a serial number engraved on it.
Oh…and don’t shoot me, please, nor flame. Just because I can *understand* their thought process doesn’t mean that I *agree* in any way with their thought process. Given that I’m seriously considering moving from a Class 01 FFL to a Class 07 FFL (with a Class 03 SOT) I’ve had to learn to think like the ATF thinks…
March 15th, 2014 at 8:35 pm
JBT’s in action… Why do I keep thinking of Waco???
March 15th, 2014 at 8:37 pm
Thanks for the input, Dragon. Stuff makes a bit more sense looking at it that way.
The ATF are still jerks, and people still shouldn’t live in Mordor.
March 15th, 2014 at 8:38 pm
Actually dragon, you have it backwards,
The process they use is to create “mill this out” part FIRST, then use it as the “core” in the injection molding process that creates the receiver. Thus, the receiver part NEVER at any pointe costs without the core, and since they are identical materials, and the injection molding process makes the join line mechanically indistinguishable from any section through any other part of the receiver, the ATF is simply wrong.
In fact, EP did file this information, and made it public, and the ATF still proceeded.
The presence (or not) of colorants in one part of the single-piece plastic part does not make it different than a solid, single color polymer 80% blank.
March 15th, 2014 at 8:38 pm
@Dragon: I believe they started with the trigger well and then built around that. I doubt it’s a gnat’s hair of a difference to the ATF, but just throwing some points in.
I don’t think anyone will flame you for explaining to the rest of us why the ATF thinks the way they do. It doesn’t make you a conspirator against the constitution or whatever. Just someone smart enough to fill in the gaps.
Thanks.
March 15th, 2014 at 9:10 pm
I hope the client lists are Encrypted with Federally disapproved encryption.
March 15th, 2014 at 11:31 pm
Ah..thanks Patrick and Marc. If they indeed did begin with the trigger well as a core or “plug”, then proceeded with the injection of the rest of the lower around that core (much like a bowling ball is built around the weighted core at its center) then it definitely *wasn’t* a case where it was built out beyond the rather nebulous “80%” mile-marker and filled back in using a different color.
And knowing this now, I stand corrected. 🙂
March 15th, 2014 at 11:46 pm
Paul Kisling: I hope they had the sense to never keep such lists.
March 16th, 2014 at 5:47 am
You guys made me google “sten receiver with bonded template”. Now I’m probably on some list.
March 16th, 2014 at 9:11 am
Wouldn’t hold my breath on that Kristophr. Businesses tend to get kind of anal when comes to records.
Would be a great way to advertise for a store though. No records kept other than required by law.
March 16th, 2014 at 9:41 am
“Well, restraining orders don’t stop abusive spouses. I guess we should not be surprised they don’t stop abusive government agencies running amok either.”
Enh, what do you care, anyway? As long as it isn’t happening to you it’s stupid and silly and extremist for anyone to be concerned their rights and possessions might be next on the list, or to even ask about what they’d do in a similar situation.
March 16th, 2014 at 9:45 am
On the subject at hand, EPArmory was (and may still be) selling “90%” aluminum lowers with the magwell finished, leaving only the fire control holes to be drilled/milled.
http://www.slickguns.com/product/ar-90-lower-ep-armory-5999
Without requiring an FFL. Without having any ID marks stamped on the lower.
They’ve been giving the ATF rules a big giant finger for a while now. Get your 80’s quickly if you want them.
March 16th, 2014 at 1:09 pm
nk – why are you still using Google anyway?