Or you could teach them to keep their booger hooks off the bang switches
NYPD brass tells cops to stop carrying Kahrs off duty because their officers suck at gun safety and handling err because it has a light trigger pull.
21 Responses to “Or you could teach them to keep their booger hooks off the bang switches”
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August 26th, 2014 at 7:06 pm
…and a 12-lb trigger setup on a Glock is called a ___ ____ Trigger. Ready? Go!
I swear, what are they doing out at Rodman’s Neck? ‘Cause it sure ain’t teaching gun-handling, that’s for sure.
August 26th, 2014 at 7:44 pm
And somewhere in America, a litigator is filing this away to bring up at some future trial.
There are still a whole lot of people who think that the NYPD is the most highly trained police force in the world. If they can’t not shoot themselves with a Kahr…
August 26th, 2014 at 8:41 pm
Letting an NYPD cop near any of my guns would in itself be considered a negligent act then. Interesting implications there.
August 26th, 2014 at 9:37 pm
I almost spit my iced tea all over the couch when I read the article… 12lb trigger pull on their Glocks?? Holy crap.
And if you discharge a gun with a 7.5lb trigger with the length of pull on a Khar, it is most definitely negligent, not accidental
August 26th, 2014 at 9:57 pm
Kahr has a “light trigger”?
My ass.
I picked up my PM9 for the first time in two years yesterday, and found it sucked a little less than the last time I shot it. That’s probably because I have spent so much time with state police detectives who carry G27s with those 11 and 12 pound triggers, that the Kahr feels like a Sig with a competition trigger, by comparison.
I help staties qualify. When they feel bad about their shooting with their G23 and G27s, I hand them my stock commercial variants of the same. They damn near shoot like Buck Rogers on a laser gun.
So once they realize the issue is the shitty state-mandated trigger, we work on managing a shitty trigger and they qualify with high scores a week or so later.
Scary: These guys were recently told they cannot carry a stock trigger off-suty, even if it is their own personal gun. They have to modify all their personal guns to have shitty triggers. Also, all non-practice ammo has to be metered (measured), as well. It took me a while, but I finally got them away from the habit of emptying the “metered” ammo from their mags before shooting. I told them to stop taking risks and just buy some practice mags, and to avoid constant handling of the rounds. I h=showed them some videos of what could happen if you constantly load/unload rounds. Boom.
Ugh.
These cops are managed by the same type of people who claim to be qualified to manage us.
August 26th, 2014 at 11:24 pm
I have and carry the Kahr K9 as well as a Glock 26 with a NY-1/3.5lb connector.
Yes, the Kahr has a light and LONG trigger compared to the Glock. If you are used to a 12 lb Glock trigger (as the NYPD does) then the Kahr is most definably not one I’d pack off duty.
The difference is great and if the cop rides the trigger they can AD/ND a Kahr.
August 27th, 2014 at 12:30 am
Hi. All of the sworn NYPD members of service commenting here please stand up. Anybody? Nope didn’t think so. It’s amazing how many know so much about something they’ve never done or seen. The NYPD has many flaws. Firearms issues are a big one. Yes we need more firearms training. Who doesn’t? We have 35,000 members and exactly two ranges. Max capacity 600 a day. 5 days a week. All mos must at twice a year. Taking off my shoes helps me calculate that if everything work just perfect then one cycle takes about 22ish weeks. Of course you say. That’s only 44 weeks out of 52. Easy peasy. Now take out holidays, riots, major event details. Mos out sick or injured on either end of the machine. Tell me now. Where should we add the extra training? Got a multi point range I can borrow? FTS expends a little more then 3 MILLION rounds a year. Add a cycle? Then add another 1.5 million. Math is fun! The 12 lbs trigger is a hold over from the revolver transition days and nobody seems to have the juice to change it. I don’t like it but they never asked me. A vast majority of recruits have never touched a gun before they took the job. Ever try to teach 1000 newbies to shoot 25-50 at a time? Good luck and bring a vest. As to the Kahr k9’s, great guns until the made the company up the trigger weight, then not so much. Again no one asked me but I’m not commissioner. Added to that was the tale I have heard in many places but not verified that Kahr subbed out manufacture to meet demand, resulting in relaxed quality control. True, maybe. I have seen multiple officers returning Kahr for repair but anecdote does not equal fact. Oh and please save your cop bashing for the water cooler in your office. Your nice, air conditioned, office. I’ll be in street waiting for your call to deal with that armed nut that you didn’t feel like handling with your advanced ninja skills. Better yet, get 50 or 60 of your friends to come down to range with you. Have them all mill around except one. Have that one guy take a shot at you from the crowd. Let me know your hit ratio when your done Scout.
August 27th, 2014 at 12:38 am
Ah, yes; the fuzz are functionally illiterate, too.
August 27th, 2014 at 12:49 am
Sorry for the rant. I hear this stuff a lot and it often irks me to defend my department especially when I make a lot of the same points in house but if my choice is reality or fantasy, I chose reality, the foods better.
My biggest pet peeve is the issue of grip enhancements for our pistols. Big no no. Heaven forbid I make my gun easier to shoot accurately. Not authorized because you could get sued. I have been told this for 20 years and I have yet to hear one legitimate story of this ever happening. I have sweaty mitts so of course I want a slick plastic gun to hold onto. At least my revolver had rubber grips. Then they made me give it up.
I do like my glock. I don’t even mind the trigger too much. I use it in uspsa production unaltered. It is fun sometimes to hear someone complain about losing a stage and blame their heavy 5 lb trigger.
August 27th, 2014 at 12:51 am
Ha. The “fuzz”. Never heard that one before. Did Shaft tell you that one?
August 27th, 2014 at 8:09 am
Same guys who were told to stop choking people a few years ago?
August 27th, 2014 at 9:07 am
Since they can’t handle guns, maybe they should just issue them all plungers. They seem to handle those fine.
August 27th, 2014 at 9:11 am
Bill, I think I have the solution to the following problems:
Yes we need more firearms training
We have 35,000 members
two ranges. Max capacity 600 a day. 5 days a week
A vast majority of recruits have never touched a gun before they took the job.
I’ll be in street waiting for your call to deal with that armed nut that you didn’t feel like handling with your advanced ninja skills.
You ready?
Let citizens of New York own their own guns, including pistols.
I know it’s not up to you but that’s the answer. Once that happens, capitalism will take over and all of a sudden there will be a hundred ranges instead of two, and plenty of trainers that will GLADLY take on contracts to provide advanced and remedial training.
Recruits never picked up a gun before? Gee, I wonder why that is? Maybe because they’re de facto not allowed to?
New Yorkers have to call you to deal with that armed nut because they’re not friggen allowed to. Doesn’t matter if they don’t want to or not. The folks that read this blog? They’d GLADLY take care of that for you.
You sound like a trainer. You sound like maybe you have some expertise you could leverage with 1PP. Down here, LE leadership gets a lot of say in the laws that are written, and I imagine its the same up there. Take your complaints and your data to Albany.
That would do a whole lot more good than complaining that people point out what terrible shots your trainees are.
August 27th, 2014 at 12:19 pm
Wizard: +1000
August 27th, 2014 at 1:26 pm
Thanks wizard for writing that so I didn’t have to, and do a worse job than you …
August 27th, 2014 at 4:01 pm
Wizard I completely agree with your point. I feel anyone who is responsible and not prohibited by law should have the access to weapons of their choice. The outright theft of rights is a travesty. As to people not not allowed to do things to protect themselves and others I call BS. People around here here are perfectly happy to do all kinds of activities that are proscribed by law and safety with little care or concern for others. Fight, speed , gamble, drink and do drugs openly, all good until its time to get your hands dirty. Then its dial 911 to handle my issues and worries.
Dealing with politics? Can I borrow you magic wand?
August 27th, 2014 at 4:52 pm
Bill; Those of us making fun of cops’ handling skills are entirely self-trained, which is to say that any training we’ve had from others was done on our own dime on our own time, using our own guns and our own ammo, which some of us load ourselves, any paying our own range fees when applicable. So I’m just not feeling your indignation on this end. From my point of view, what stops a cop from getting more practice is his personal unwillingness to go practice more. I have rarely ever shot at a formal range for example. I DRIVE sometimes for 45 minutes one way, out in the country, ON MY OWN TIME.
Cut the corruption and graft by 10% and you’d have enough to build and staff five more ranges anyway, but as Wizard put it, just get the government the fuck out of the way of the people and the ranges will spring up as if by magic, with ZERO city budget involved (except that a private enterprise PAYS fucking taxes instead of SUCKING them out of other people..
IN FACT there is a force operating here that has been carefully designed to degrade our relationship with one another, and degrade the society at large, and that is Progressivism. To the extent that your job sucks, it sucks because of Progressivism, as wizardpc only touched upon. Stupid-ass laws you’re supposed to enforce against your Oath, tying our hands, tying your hands, trying to make us fear lawyers more than we value freedom, it goes on and on and on and on, Progressively toward our ruin.
August 27th, 2014 at 5:47 pm
I am very confused. Are the only people who call the NYPD for help with “armed nuts” as you mentioned earlier folks who “Fight, speed , gamble, drink and do drugs openly?” Are these the same people you said earlier were calling you from ” nice, air conditioned, office[s]?”
I can’t figure out if you’re complaining about criminals calling you for help or otherwise law-abiding folks not illegally obtaining firearms in your city. Can you clarify that for me?
August 27th, 2014 at 7:47 pm
New Yorkers have to call you to deal with that armed nutbecause they’re not friggen allowed to. Doesn’t matter if they don’t want to or not. The folks that read this blog? They’d GLADLY take care of that for you.
My statement is in response to yours above. I’m not complaining about anyone. I was merely refuting your accertion that the general masses are itching to handle their own problems. And why do you assume that the people in their nice air conditioned offices wouldn’t also speed drink gamble or fight?
August 27th, 2014 at 11:46 pm
It’s okay, Bill. As long as Di Blasio is on the cops side…nevermind. Just be a blue flowerpot for the next few years.
August 28th, 2014 at 1:08 am
Hey…..I know of a rich guy that should be interested in more cops having access to training. He’s filthy rich.
Just think if Bloomie would put his money where his mouth is and open some more police ranges………