In Florida
Judge rules that open carry can be banned so long as concealed carry is allowed. Also, I didn’t realize that, in FL, having a license is an affirmative defense to the crime of carrying a gun.
Remember, I do this to entertain me, not you.
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February 22nd, 2015 at 1:53 pm
Yup. You have no right to bear arms outside of your home without explicit gov’t permission which, when charged with the crime of bearing arms, you must present your permission-slip to the very state accusing you of the crime.
Apparently, fingerprinting, background checks, fees, and expensive classes that you must schedule are not a burden in any way. The free ID you can request online and have mailed to your home for voting though?
TOO MUCH FOR ANYONE TO GO THROUGH YOU RACIST!!!!
February 22nd, 2015 at 7:12 pm
Malicious prosecution and false imprisonment are still torts, maybe more so in Florida which is a very lawyer-heavy state. If you present your permit to the cop and he still arrests and makes you go through the process you can sue his *** and win.
February 22nd, 2015 at 9:24 pm
@nk – Maybe not. “An affirmative defense to a civil lawsuit or criminal charge is a fact or set of facts other than those alleged by the plaintiff or prosecutor which, if proven by the defendant, defeats or mitigates the legal consequences of the defendant’s otherwise unlawful conduct.” (from Wikipedia, but Webster’s has pretty much the same definition. I didn’t check Black’s).
Note that the affirmative defense is presented in court, not at the point of arrest. Your lawyer will want money for that, and still more money to get the arrest expunged.
Since the way the FL law is worded it is illegal to posses a firearm outside one’s curtilage, concealed (with or without a permit) or openly carried (even with a permit) except for the statutory exceptions for while fishing/hunting and travel to/from, hence the issue over “affirmative defense.” The LEO is within legal authority to execute the arrest, and protected against gross error by qualified immunity. All the LEO has to record on the Charging Affidavit is that the gun was “openly displayed” then state in court it was displayed for a period sufficiently long to qualify as openly carried (FL has a clause in the law – F.S. Chapter 790.53 (1)- frequently disregarded by LEOs, allowing “…to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person,…” And it’s easy for the LEO to claim it was displayed in an “angry or threatening manner” obviating the brief display protections of 790.53.
Yes, that can be fought, but it’s more checks to your lawyer.
February 23rd, 2015 at 12:23 am
That is true, but that aspect of Florida’s law was not challenged in this case. There’s a similar type case going on in New Jersey that would develop case law in this area. Essentially arguing that you can’t treat a fundamental right in a manner like this.
Obviously, New Jersey’s law is a lot more severe than Florida’s, because in New Jersey, owning a gun is generally illegal, and possession of licenses and permits an affirmative defense.
Of course the Third Circuit, which encompasses NJ, PA, and DE, is turning out to be pretty hostile to the Second Amendment, which is disappointing.
February 23rd, 2015 at 1:07 am
FL was early to the CC dance, and is generally still ahead of the curve on armed defense…still it’s a pretty good demonstration of the law of unintended consequences that in pre-license days there was nothing specifically illegal about open carry and/or open display. Now, licensed and legal for CC means OC can be prosecuted…or worse.
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:23 am
Heh! I was around when Florida passed its first concealed carry law and made the little old ladies wet their Depends. It left a loophole for open carry, no permit required, which its enactor said was intentional. Closed soon after. Visions of snowbirds walking around like Marshall Dillon at the retirement communities and shooting it out over who stole whose Metamucil, I guess.
February 23rd, 2015 at 1:21 pm
IF it is OK to ban as long as you cover up your shame with a piece of cloth, then they better make that act of covering it open to any lawful person without being licensed.
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:52 pm
Gawd I’m glad I live in Indiana. All y’all’re fucked up.
February 23rd, 2015 at 4:50 pm
Unc, you do know that those are the same rules here in TN, right? it is illegal to bear a weapon, and the permit is an affirmative defence against the charge of going armed.
Pol
February 23rd, 2015 at 6:52 pm
Georgia was even weirder, it has been legal to carry openly or concealed, but the language was articulate in the form of affirmative defense vs the license being an element of the offense. This resulted in a loss for GCO when they challenged the way MARTA was treating gun carriers at stations (Federal civil rights challenge), usually detaining them for an hour while they checked them out.
GCO got that crap changed soon after. We now have code that specifically articulates that it is unlawful for police to stop an individual simply for carrying a firearm.