ATF to shut down gun store
12 Responses to “ATF to shut down gun store”
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June 30th, 2015 at 3:07 pm
If THAT’S the criteria, can we shut down the GOVERNMENT?!?
June 30th, 2015 at 8:56 pm
IDK, if I screwed up every 35th piece of paperwork I’d be out on the street PDQ. In technical work “good enough” doesn’t begin until 99.9% and that’s just the start.
June 30th, 2015 at 10:25 pm
Unfrikkinbelievable…
June 30th, 2015 at 10:34 pm
If my computer programs bombed almost 3 percent of the time…. I’d be fired.
Question is, what were the errors?
Were they misspelling errors or did they fail to do something serious, like record guns bought and sold.
July 1st, 2015 at 12:39 am
When the mission is to eliminate by attrition as many FFL’s as possible, any and every error or omission regardless of intent or material affect, is a violation, and the percentile mentioned here, along with an apparent history of similar error rates, can trigger license forfeiture.
The only way I’ve found to virtually eliminate this type of simple human clerical error is to invest in an overpriced pain in the ass software system, in my case pawnmaster with an integrated gunlog module that basically won’t allow mistakes or omissions as you can’t progress to the next step until entries are complete and in correct format, and “are you sure” icons pop up with any inconsistency.
It ain’t your daddy’s pawn and gun store anymore (I should know as my first go around in the biz in the 70’s essentially would be your daddy’s era. Back then I could knock out a hand-written two-page 4473 (used to call ’em yellow forms, now they’re white) in about two minutes, and a pawn form in about a minute. Now in my forced re-entry into the arena, it takes me at least ten minutes to get through the former, and five to do the latter.
Progress, I effin’ hate it…but if you want to stay in business you get with the program, as it were.
July 1st, 2015 at 2:31 am
As Bob stated above, this performance in my industry would get me an invitation to work elsewhere. We religiously use reviews and verifications on everything. Even the lunch order, because why treat that differently?
Like it or Not, the FFL Business is nit-picked by the BATFE. There is no good enough for government work, close enough for today. If the licensee cannot get a repetitive task like a 4473 form right every time, he needs to figure out how he can stop making mistakes! Computerize it, make sure a second set of eyes look it over, RTFI! again. Last time I bought a rifle, I asked the FFL to go over every question with me twice before I signed. If I make a mistake, it is a potential felony for me, so I damned well am going to get it correct.
July 1st, 2015 at 9:30 am
Yeah, I wonder what the REAL error rate in the atf’s NFA log is…
July 1st, 2015 at 9:38 am
Nobody is perfect. But if the government wants to get you, that’s no excuse.
July 1st, 2015 at 12:31 pm
ATF needs to be shutdown because when I read the document, there is NO delegated power for what it does. It’s an UNLAWFUL agency illegally imposing on, harassing and threatening the people.
July 1st, 2015 at 6:08 pm
Still can’t find the part about filling out a form 4473 in the 2A.
July 1st, 2015 at 11:07 pm
@Bob Barker, Deaf Smith, RD:
The figure Miguel quoted of 2.8% refers to the percentage of forms with at least one noted “violation.”
If you think that sounds high, perhaps you either haven’t looked at a 4473 recently, you don’t know what constitutes a “violation,” or a combination of the two.
A “violation” consists of ANY incorrect information on the form, no matter who put it there. For a standard transaction, there are 37 distinct places where the purchaser can make a mistake by the time they’ve filled out the first page, and signed and dated the form at the top of the second.
Little things matter to BATFE; Middle initial(s) or a blank box instead of full middle name(s) or NMN, respectively. Misspellings, e.g. men with “Michael” as a middle name have a tendency to write “Micheal” when they fill out the 4473. Not writing out the entire city name, or omitting the state, for box 3 (place of birth) — e.g. “Phila” or “Phila, PA” instead of “Philadelphia, PA.”
Again, for a standard and uncomplicated transfer of a single firearm, the employee/licensee has 27 distinct areas in which to make mistakes, each one of which would constitute a “violation.” Things like failing to correctly differentiate between a “pistol” and a “revolver” or failing to properly notate a valid change of address (i.e. incorrectly describing the document in box 20b., e.g. “License update card” instead of “CWOPA Driver’s License Update”)
Thus, that means that this dealer has 1500 sets of paperwork each with a bare minimum of 64 potential violations. Even if we assume that the 42 forms at issue had at least two violations each, that translates to an error rate of 1 in 1,142.857. Given that the sample size was 1,500 sets of paperwork, there’s a good chance that there are several forms that include more than one firearm, or involved a background check delay (thus another 2-3 potential violations from the dealer, and another 2 potential violations from the buyer), and there’s also a good chance that most of those 42 sets of paperwork only had a single violation. That means that the above figure is extremely pessimistic; I wouldn’t be surprised if the actual figure was in excess of 1 in 2000 (a 99.9995% rate of doing things correctly).
Remember who we’re dealing with here: A government that wants to be able to shut down gun stores on a whim. There is no minimum number of required “violations” for BATFE to revoke an FFL. All they need to find is one “violation.” If you think you can fill out 4473s perfectly every single time, while also perfectly proof-reading what your customer wrote every single time, then perhaps you need to try working as a salesman in a gun store: Either you’ll be the only one in the industry that does it perfectly every single time, or you’ll come to understand that the paperwork is designed as an entrapment scheme. The purpose is to make it clear to dealers that they remain in business not because they have a right to do so, but merely because the BATFE continues to permit it.
July 2nd, 2015 at 12:48 pm
Meanwhile, the TSA fails at detecting guns and bombs 96% of the time.