It looks like a good drill for learning to control a pistol in rapid fire, and that has a value, but what it may have to do with defensive shooting I couldn’t say for sure.
Try it on a moving , intelligent target that’s trying it’s best not to get shot, among a bunch of innocent bystanders and get back to me on who all got shot besides the perp. Do they have that kind of target at your local gun range? Well, paintball contests I suppose, at your local paintball range.
My best answer for “what would you do in a defensive situation?” is; I won’t know until I get there. I’m pretty sure it won’t involve firing six shots in under two seconds.
It’s a nice drill, but don’t plan on using it in a defensive shooting.
I like pin shooting, for the fact that it makes you focus on the separate targets and accomplish an outcome with regard to the targets. Anyway, mix it up, keeping in mind that those targets, politely sitting there, static, until you shoot them and never shooting back, and that politely well-lit shooting range, are about as far from reality as you could get.
Remember that all you’re doing there is learning to control the gun. Fighting is a whole other deal, and I don’t know how you prepare for that.
If you haven’t hunted, and killed, live game it is my thesis that you should do so. It doesn’t shoot back, and usually doesn’t even try to kill you, but it is far, far and away from range shooting.
One barely has anything at all to do with the other. Especially with an indoor range– My goodness, you don’t even have to deal with the position of the sun, or the conditions. Shine a powerful, hot spotlight in your face and try that, for example. Now make the targets move in response to your actions, add wind, add the element of total surprise while having to assess your field-of-fire for safety reasons, and now you’re just starting to get a clue.
I’m wondering why there aren’t more interactive “live shooter” scenario systems in use at high end self defense training outfits. Actually, they’ve gotten cheap enough that they’re affordable for the better (read: more spendy) indoor range operations.
Haven’t used it since retirement, but the one we have at the agency contains multiple scenarios that self-modified based on the user’s actions. True, the scenarios were limited, and didn’t vary extensively, but they did produce different event paths. It also had an IR sensor that tracked the user and when the bad guy(s) in the scenario fired at the user a gizmo located above the room-size screen fired high velocity hard plastic pellets at the user, and did it rather accurately. Pretty effective way to teach the value of cover.
I once tried to get my best first-shot A-zone hit at seven yards using an OPEN gun from a Race holster, starting in the “Surrender Position” (Wrists above shoulders).
In over 30 attempts, the best time I clocked was 0.83 seconds. And I could only beat 1 second because I shot it one-handed. Trying to get that support hand on the gun slowed my accurate-first-shot WAY down.
But six shots? That’s something else again.
When I’m working at it, I can get 0.19 second split times. Six shots? Probably I’d average my usual 0.30 second split times.
Doing the math, and assuming I’m taking a full 1.0 second for a draw time, that’s 1.0 plus (5 x 0.30 = 1.50)for a full 2.50 seconds minimum … on my very best day, after working at it for an hour or two.
With an open gun, and a race holster.
Which I’m not going to claim I can do, because I never could and I never will.
And these folks are claiming MUCH faster times, much more accurate hits, from concealed carry gear.
All I can say is (at the risk of repeating myself) is:
I didn’t have the gun concealed, it was open in an AIWB holster. I don’t remember the exact timer numbers, but the splits were all in the 0.19-0.20 range. Which is about as fast as I can mechanically run a gun.
February 29th, 2016 at 9:36 pm
It looks like a good drill for learning to control a pistol in rapid fire, and that has a value, but what it may have to do with defensive shooting I couldn’t say for sure.
Try it on a moving , intelligent target that’s trying it’s best not to get shot, among a bunch of innocent bystanders and get back to me on who all got shot besides the perp. Do they have that kind of target at your local gun range? Well, paintball contests I suppose, at your local paintball range.
My best answer for “what would you do in a defensive situation?” is; I won’t know until I get there. I’m pretty sure it won’t involve firing six shots in under two seconds.
It’s a nice drill, but don’t plan on using it in a defensive shooting.
I like pin shooting, for the fact that it makes you focus on the separate targets and accomplish an outcome with regard to the targets. Anyway, mix it up, keeping in mind that those targets, politely sitting there, static, until you shoot them and never shooting back, and that politely well-lit shooting range, are about as far from reality as you could get.
Remember that all you’re doing there is learning to control the gun. Fighting is a whole other deal, and I don’t know how you prepare for that.
If you haven’t hunted, and killed, live game it is my thesis that you should do so. It doesn’t shoot back, and usually doesn’t even try to kill you, but it is far, far and away from range shooting.
One barely has anything at all to do with the other. Especially with an indoor range– My goodness, you don’t even have to deal with the position of the sun, or the conditions. Shine a powerful, hot spotlight in your face and try that, for example. Now make the targets move in response to your actions, add wind, add the element of total surprise while having to assess your field-of-fire for safety reasons, and now you’re just starting to get a clue.
March 1st, 2016 at 6:53 pm
I’m wondering why there aren’t more interactive “live shooter” scenario systems in use at high end self defense training outfits. Actually, they’ve gotten cheap enough that they’re affordable for the better (read: more spendy) indoor range operations.
Haven’t used it since retirement, but the one we have at the agency contains multiple scenarios that self-modified based on the user’s actions. True, the scenarios were limited, and didn’t vary extensively, but they did produce different event paths. It also had an IR sensor that tracked the user and when the bad guy(s) in the scenario fired at the user a gizmo located above the room-size screen fired high velocity hard plastic pellets at the user, and did it rather accurately. Pretty effective way to teach the value of cover.
March 1st, 2016 at 8:07 pm
I’m impressed!
I once tried to get my best first-shot A-zone hit at seven yards using an OPEN gun from a Race holster, starting in the “Surrender Position” (Wrists above shoulders).
In over 30 attempts, the best time I clocked was 0.83 seconds. And I could only beat 1 second because I shot it one-handed. Trying to get that support hand on the gun slowed my accurate-first-shot WAY down.
But six shots? That’s something else again.
When I’m working at it, I can get 0.19 second split times. Six shots? Probably I’d average my usual 0.30 second split times.
Doing the math, and assuming I’m taking a full 1.0 second for a draw time, that’s 1.0 plus (5 x 0.30 = 1.50)for a full 2.50 seconds minimum … on my very best day, after working at it for an hour or two.
With an open gun, and a race holster.
Which I’m not going to claim I can do, because I never could and I never will.
And these folks are claiming MUCH faster times, much more accurate hits, from concealed carry gear.
All I can say is (at the risk of repeating myself) is:
I am VERY impressed!
March 1st, 2016 at 10:55 pm
I didn’t have the gun concealed, it was open in an AIWB holster. I don’t remember the exact timer numbers, but the splits were all in the 0.19-0.20 range. Which is about as fast as I can mechanically run a gun.