Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act case
A gun shop has agreed to pay out $2.2M:
Delana filed her lawsuit after her daughter, Colby Weathers, bought a gun at Odessa Gun & Pawn Shop and used it to kill Tex Delana, her father and Delanas husband.
Delana had called the store on June 25, 2012, pleading with it not to sell a gun to her daughter. Weathers had bought a gun there previously and later attempted to commit suicide. Delana gave the store manager her daughters full name, Social Security number and birthdate and told him, Im begging of you. Im begging of you as a mother, if she comes in, please dont sell her a gun, her lawsuit stated.
Despite Delanas plea, the store sold Weathers a gun and ammunition. She shot and killed Tex Delana within the hour. Weathers eventually pleaded not guilty to murder by reason of a mental defect or disease and was committed to the care of the Missouri Department of Mental Health.
Interesting. I am not a lawyer but I can see the case for actual negligence here. Any opinions?
December 6th, 2016 at 8:23 pm
Since when does a mothers plea have legal standing?
Why didn’t the mother call the police instead? If she did, why didn’t the police do something. If the police wouldn’t do anything, why would/should the shop?
December 6th, 2016 at 8:42 pm
Negligence of the mother for not calling the police and/or having her admittedly violent, unstable daughter hostpitalized. Next will be the discrimination suits by people denied sales.
December 6th, 2016 at 9:17 pm
Tough one. i know a few antigun moms that I wouldn’t put past making such a call out of pure spite.
December 6th, 2016 at 9:29 pm
“Please gun store X! My wife CANNOT be sold a gun! She is delusional and may harm herself. Why she’s so crazy that she will deny her sickness and spin fanciful tales that she and I are estranged and even that I have abused her for years! You must prevent her from arming herself! At least until next Thursday…”
~Signed W. Beater.
December 6th, 2016 at 9:48 pm
Think of this scenario, you are in a Walmart and overhear an obvious gang banger tell his girlfriend “that’s the rifle I need, the AR15.” A couple more similar comments and you think a straw purchase is about to happen. Do you tell the guy behind the counter? What is your barometer for getting involved? What if he says “that’s what I need to kill all those mother f…..”. Now what? See a guy get I. A car who is obviously drunk get into a car. At some point you make a call and someone else is on notice. They no longer have ignorance as an excuse. Like it ever is anyway.
December 6th, 2016 at 10:16 pm
The store owner could have asked the mother to bring a picture for them. Then he could have briefed all his employees not to sell to this person.
I would have.
December 6th, 2016 at 10:38 pm
Why stop there?
“My son is overweight and has high blood pressure. As a mother, I beg you to not sell him any fatty or salty food.”
“My daughter is a poor driver. She has even received speeding tickets and a DUI. I beg you not to sell her a car.”
Why should firearms be treated any differently than any other product or service?
December 6th, 2016 at 11:46 pm
As a previous slinger-of-guns, you bet your ass I didn’t make a sale if it felt funny. I know I stopped at least two straw purchases that way, because apparently people are dumb and think others can’t overhear their conversations.
December 7th, 2016 at 12:04 am
While I would not fault the store for not selling neither would I find fault with them foe selling on the basis of a phone call from someone who May/may not be the mother who may/maynot be telling the truth
She was not a prohibited person she passed the background check as far as I am concerned case dismissed
December 7th, 2016 at 12:04 am
So there’s only one gun shop nearby huh?
December 7th, 2016 at 8:41 am
I made a similar call to Wal-Mart about my wife buying a Karaoke machine. “Please, for the love of God, do not sell her a Karaoke machine!!”
December 7th, 2016 at 10:32 am
If she was hospitalized after a suicide attempt, would she be a prohibited person? Yes I did not sell firearms in two cases to people who did not seem all together. One employee did sell a pistol to a pretty young lady who then shot the lawyer her family had hired to have her committed.
December 7th, 2016 at 11:21 am
I read the article, but of course it’s not very informational. It’s all emotional to tug at the heart strings.
I think the legal theory would be that once the mother called, the gun store had actual notice of the woman’s danger to herself and others. Under this theory, it wouldn’t matter that she passed all the background checks and such because they supposedly knew anyway that she would be lying on the form and/or that she was too mentally unstable to own a gun. Hence, the “negligent entrustment” theory.
And, actually, Divemedic’s scenario of the DUI charge is highly analogous. If the car dealership actually knew of the DUIs, I think that case would be successful in the courts, too.
However, as BenC implies, anyone could call up a gun store and make all kinds of allegations about all kinds of things while claiming all kinds of relationships to someone. How is the store to know what’s true and what’s not? Unless there is a readily accessible governmental list of suicide attempts, I just don’t see how that is realistic.
December 7th, 2016 at 12:03 pm
Well, Gerry as long as she limited herself to shooting lawyers I’d say your employee did all right.
December 7th, 2016 at 12:36 pm
Texas law says you cannot sell a gun to someone who says or indicated they will use it illegally.
In this case the shop was forewarned and they did not investigate any further.
No criminal law broke, but yep, I bet they can be sued.
December 7th, 2016 at 2:03 pm
This story is dumb enough to have been made-up, or planned.
Right; there was just that one gun store in all the land, and not one private sale to be had in all the land, nor all the surrounding lands. And there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to murder a person other than with a gun, and a recently purchased one at that, and from the one gun store out of thousands, which your mother called.
And of course the first thing you think of when it becomes clear that your daughter is crazy enough to be an imminent danger to herself and others, is to call one gun store and expect them to be able to prevent tragedy. At that point your responsibility for your family ends; just call a gun store by telephone. Everyone thinks like that, right? Your kids are having problems, you call a gun store.
BULL SHIT! I guarantee you there’s more to this story than meets the eye, and that it’s more bullshit underlying the obvious bullshit, layered in with shenanigans..
December 7th, 2016 at 2:47 pm
This would seem to be the gun equivalent of the dram shop rule. In some states a person can be liable for giving a dring to someone they believe to be over the limit if that person then goes out and hurts someone in a drunk driving accident. In other states they assume the person drinking is responsible for their own conduct. Perhaps they have another way home.
This is less a question of right or wrong than one of what the state thinks its policy should be. I have an opinion, but I will keep it to myself.
December 7th, 2016 at 7:08 pm
So how much is the FBI going to cough up for approving the sale via NICS?
December 8th, 2016 at 3:47 pm
I would have taken the information and called the police immediately after hanging up the phone. Someone just called to tell me someone was a danger to themselves or others (the suicide attempt and concern it would be repeated). That pretty much fits the bill.
Calling the police would have introduced some due process, covered the shop’s tail and maybe (maybe) gotten that buyer some help.
Is it their responsibility? Is it required?
Only if they cared.