Guns where alcohol is served
It’s that time again. Once again, some one proposes a bill to allow: anyone who “has a permit to carry a handgun to carry (it) in places where alcohol is served for consumption on premises,” as long as the person is not consuming alcohol and as long as the owners of the premises have not banned weapons from the premises and posted proper notification of the ban.
I’m not a huge fan of the bill but it is a bit of progress. I personally think the simple solution is to make packing while intoxicated illegal regardless of whether you’re in a bar or not. As it stands, I can get smashed and go wandering through my subdivision with a weapon and that’s just public intoxication.
And this bill, like the incarnations proposed for the last three or four years, will not pass.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:02 am
At least one state has a strict law against carrying a concealed weapon while intoxicated. Michigan law sets the threshold for intoxication while carrying at 0.02 Bodily Alcohol Content.
For comparison, a driver can have up to 0.08 BAC before a DUI citation is issued.
However, that state also makes carrying illegal in any business where the primary source of income is alcohol sold by the glass to be consumed on the premises.
You would think that one of the two laws would be enough…but no, they’re both necessary.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Disagree totally. In Florida, we can carry into an establishment where alcohol is served. I can’t sit at the bar, but I can sit at a table 3 feet away. And I like to have a beer or a drink with dinner, that shouldn’t exclude me from being able to protect myself.
DUI is different than PUI (packing under the influence). With a car, you are putting others at jeopardy when you get on the road. If you were sitting in your car in a parking spot, you are no danger. That’s what PUI is.
I would argue that if you are required to use a firearm and you’ve been drinking, it would be harder to prove that you were able to make the correct judgment. I’d also have no issues with intoxicated people not being covered by the Stand Your Ground laws.
Of course, the anti’s would spin this to make it sound like I want drunk people having guns, and that’s as far from the truth as possible. What I’m aiming for is making people responsible for their actions rather than a “preventative” measure that is only going to affect the law abiding anyway and, well, is moot unless you start allowing cops to frisk people they think are intoxicated to check for weapons.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:49 am
I agree with Rob as the most desirable solution. However if that type of a measure is unable to pass, SayUncle’s solution is still far better than an outright ban of weapons at bars or restaurants that server alcohol. There are too many States that ban carrying weapons while in Bars or even worse – while in restaurants that in addition to food & soda also happen to serve Alcohol. Arizona is one of those States. It is a violation of the 2nd Amendment for a State government to tell me that I can’t bear arms just because I happen to be in a location open to the public that happens to serve Alcohol. Not only that, but when I’m in a location that serves Alcohol I’m probably at greatest risk of being attacked by some crazy drunk guy. Making such locations a Gun Free Zone does not keep bad guys from bringing guns there, all it does is create yet another Defenseless Victim Zone.
I would propose that it would be far more acceptable & logical for States to ban the carrying of a weapon while intoxicated in public. They could call the infraction a CWI – Carrying While Intoxicated. The penalty could be somewhere between a simple fine & the current penalty system for a DWI. That way folks like myself can still carry & be prepared to protect ourselves & our families while we are in a public restaurant or other location that happens to serve Alcohol.
Of course an even better solution would be to simply say that it is illegal to do something illegal while carrying intoxicated. For example, it should be illegal to commit aggravated assault with a deadly weapon while intoxicated, but wait, that is already illegal. 😉
January 9th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Naifeh will hammer it back into obscurity, just like last time.
January 9th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I forgot to mention that The Arizona Legislature passed SB 1363 in 2005 that would have removed the current ban on carrying in establishments that serve alcohol, and allowed anyone to carry in restaurants or any other locations that serve Alcohol as long as the person carrying does not actually consume alcohol. It also had a provision to recognize private property rights & allowed businesses to ban weapons while inside their premises by posting signs. However, our then and current liberal Democrat Governor, Janet Napolitano, gave the legislation her veto.
January 9th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
You sez:
“I personally think the simple solution is to make packing while intoxicated illegal regardless of whether you’re in a bar or not.”
Pure prior restraint and very unwise. What about packing while under the influence of hay fever medication? There is no end to the list of things to add as influences and/or intoxicants. Hold people accountable for their actions, not what they may do.
–MuzzleBlast
January 9th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
I can get smashed and go wondering through my subdivision
Wondering what? Wondering who or what to shoot? 🙂
Hold people accountable for their actions, not what they may do.
In other words, FUCK an ounce of prevention!
January 9th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Texas has a sort of compromise. It is a violation to carry concealed while intoxicated, and if an establishment derives 51% or more of its revenue from alcohol sales, then it is a bar and carry is prohibited in it. (There is a red “51%” sign that has to be posted on the door that we all know to look for.) The Fox and Hound in Ft. Worth where we met, for example, derives enough income from food and pool to not hit the 51%, and I had a .38 in my pocket.
January 9th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
tgirsch – yes, exactly. We don’t ban people from driving to bars and yet more people die from alcohol & DUIs than gun deaths. You’re restricting a right based on an emotion and not logic.
I need reams of documents showing masses of armed drunks shooting up places before your going to get me to agree to any legislation. Here in Florida, we can carry in places that serve alcohol. We have no more a problem with drunks and guns than the rest of the country.
We make DUI illegal, and yet it still happens. There’s nothing you can do to prevent it short of a police state. Would you prefer that?
January 9th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Well almost all the “bar” shootings I’ve heard of have not involved someone pulling a gun and shooting. No they involve the loser going out to his car and coming back in to the bar with a gun or lying in wait outside the bar. Two actions for which restricting carrying inside the bar have little effect except to increase the body count. Oh yeah, you also never read that the permit holder went out to his car, no it is always someone who shouldn’t have had a loaded pistol in his car in any case.
This is why, in Tennessee at least, if you observe a fight in a bar and the loser leaves, you watch the door and don’t go outside for a while.
January 9th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
It is already against the law to be in possession of a handgun in Tennessee if you’re intoxicated. While I like SayUncle’s proposal better, this is a good 1st step (If the Speaker does not shaft us like last year).
January 9th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
“As it stands, I can get smashed and go wandering through my subdivision with a weapon and that’s just public intoxication.”_Uncle
As it should be. If you can’t be trusted to act appropriately when drinking you can’t be trusted to drink or carry a firearm.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Another thing I was thinking on my way home (wherein I stopped and picked up a 6 pack of Leinenkugels’ Summer Wheat, armed while purchasing I might add and enjoying as we speak) is that what tgirsch is insinuating is that this is only an “ounce” of prevention.
No, it is a metric ton. We could provide protection against drownings (a bigger killer of children than guns, by the way) by outlawing pools. Would that be an “ounce”? No.
Nothing different here.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Yeah, Tenn. Code Ann. 39-17-1321 outlaws bearing under the influence, so be careful Uncle.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Thanks for the tip!