Theft
Man traveling with $22K to buy a car gets pulled over for speeding. No crime, no charges, no evidence but they took his cash:
“The safest place to put your money if it’s legitimate is in a bank account,” the officer told NewsChannel 5 Investigates. “He stated he had two. I would put it in a bank account. It draws interest and it’s safer.”
“But it’s not illegal to carry cash,” we noted.
“No, it’s not illegal to carry cash. Again, it’s what the cash is being used for to facilitate or what it is being utilized for.”
“But you had no proof that money was being used for drug trafficking, correct? No proof?”
“And he couldn’t prove it was legitimate.”
He doesn’t have to you idiot. And this is why the answer to ‘may I search your car?’ is always no.
May 10th, 2012 at 11:09 am
I thought east Texas was bad about this kinda thing… This country sucks
May 10th, 2012 at 11:19 am
I’m hoping the lawsuit adds a couple zeroes to that amount in damages.
May 10th, 2012 at 11:22 am
Presumption of innocence? What’s that?
So we litteraly have agents of the state going around and confiscating wealth that they feel is “unearned” without any due process, proof of crime, let alone conviction.
May 10th, 2012 at 11:53 am
Those fucks are at it again. Guess they did not get enough of news channel 5 last time they did this…
May 10th, 2012 at 11:59 am
Free legal advice re searches: If they’re asking they don’t have the right, and if they have the right they’re not asking.
Also, be careful about saying yes or no at the beginning of your responses to questions: this can be counterintuitive because we always tell folks only to answer the question that is asked and to keep answers short. However, police can and do word questions regarding permissive searches in a confusing manner: “… OK I’m gonna have a look if you don’t mind” could be answered starting with yes or no and the officer could claim he understood permission was granted no matter what you said next. Learn a stock phrase like “Officer, I’d prefer not to have anybody going through my personal things.” If he’s really asking (because he doesn’t have the right) he can’t “misunderstand” your denial of permission they way he might do with a yes/no__________ answer.
May 10th, 2012 at 12:13 pm
This is different than a shakedown by a third world cop how? I still say that cops are worse than criminals. Criminals are less likely to hunt you down and kill you if you resist, and as a whole, cops steal more money than criminals do.
May 10th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
If your suing Monterey the only thing you might get is a chicken or cow..it’s a one red light “town” on the Cumberland plateau been there many times.
May 10th, 2012 at 2:07 pm
Yes, always say no because that gives you more options after they bring the dog & pony show out and have the dog “alert” on your car, giving them probable cause to search it, and then find the cash and take it.
May 10th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
@Dive Medic
This is different than a shakedown by a third world cop because of the legal theory. In the third world the cop has the gun, thus he has the power. Here in the super advanced first world the property becomes animate and commits a crime and then the cop goes after the property for it’s (not your) crime.
If it sounds medieval, that’s because it is.
May 10th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
Spain recently made illegal cash transactions greater than €2,500. What would an honest citizen need to carry that kind of cash around for? Even if it’s not for drugs, it’s to avoid taxes n’est-ce pas? Thus you’re a criminal just for having that much money on you, Q.E.D. Coming soon to America?
As someone else said, we’re no longer governed – we’re RULED.
May 10th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
and i wasn’t even a fan of governed.
May 10th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
Three phrases my attorney brother (now deceased) taught me:
“On advice of council, I do not consent to searches.”
“Am I being detained? If so, tell me when I am free to leave.”
“I invoke my right to remain silent. Please provide me with an attorney.”
May 10th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
IF a thief rolls up to my house and tries to take $20,000 from me, I’m going to shoot him. Same goes for these cops. Not right there on the side fo the road, mind you, but they will get theirs.
May 10th, 2012 at 5:34 pm
@ATLien
From a honest cop to an internet tough guy, go f*** yourself. You don’t have the balls to draw down on a cop, and if you did you wouldn’t make it. I don’t agree with a lot of third world tactics that some of these department use, but to advocate violence against someone because someone because you disagree with the law makes you a serious piece of crap. Maybe after you are done shooting down the cops, you can go lynch some black men for dating white women. That is seriously what you sound like.
May 10th, 2012 at 5:42 pm
I find it useful to remind myself that the ‘presumption of innocence’ applies to a court of law, in a cop’s mind, however: you’re guilty, or he wouldn’t be talking to you. Also: the presumption of innocence is kinda loosely interpreted, since anyone accused of a serious or violent crime is routinely jailed until the trial is over (which is a clear presumption of guilt).
Try to remember, as a practical matter, we have a LEGAL system, not a JUSTICE system. Eric Holder can rise to the top of a ‘legal system’. Eric Holder would never rise to the top of a ‘justice system.’
May 10th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
So did the cop put the money in the bank and give it back to the citizen plus interest…
May 10th, 2012 at 6:47 pm
“You don’t have the balls to draw down on a cop, and if you did you wouldn’t make it.” Drawing on a cop is imprudent. Hunting him down later may or may not be prudent but in some cases entirely ethical. A good cop has nothing to fear from the lawful population and ought to celebrate the demise of the bad apples.
May 10th, 2012 at 7:59 pm
What Oleg said.
May 10th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
Louisiana was doing the same thing a couple of years ago on I-10 between Baton Rouge and the Texas line… Got a buddy of mine for $9000 AND his Impala SS on his way to the gun show in Dallas. He got the car back a year later, but never saw the money again.
May 10th, 2012 at 8:59 pm
The line between US and THEM gets broader every time this shit is pulled.
May 10th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
… ought to celebrate the demise of the bad apples.
Don’t hold your breath in the mean time.
May 10th, 2012 at 10:48 pm
Jeff, from the crap I’ve had pulled on me by cops. If I have $20,000 legitimate $$$ legally gained through hard work. And a cop is seizing it.
a) I’d likely be carrying my side arm.
b) I’d shoot. I mean seriously no real cop would be stealing my money. So I’d have to believe I was being robbed by an imposter.
c) The jury can decide if a legal citizen not engaged in criminal activity being robbed by a cop was legitimate in his presumption that the man in uniform was not a real cop.
Frankly, I support police against criminals. But some of the actions you men in blue have been taken are so borderline that yes. I think it’s only a matter of time before good citizens gun down bad cops.
And before you get irate. Understand how we feel when cops are busting down doors and shooting innocent people and then hiding drugs on dead grandmothers. And if such were one time occurrences that’d be bad. But it’s not, it’s becoming a trend.
SWAT teams AND wrong addresses are becoming strongly associated as of late.
My right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness trump your authority. I believe that. And I’m willing to die for that.
So why don’t you take your cockiness and stuff it. And perhaps be more vocal publicly about such abuses. Cause frankly, we’re getting tired of it.
You have the authority to enforce the law. Not break it. As a former service man I took an oath to protect the Constitution from threats both foreign and domestic. Don’t be a threat to the Constitution.
My respect for police is borderline. It exists cause I know some great police officers. But then another half are the same bullies that were in high school, just now with badges. In high school I learned how to deal with bullies. You use overwhelming force.
Botched police raids have led to the death of decorated war heros. Grandmothers. And countless canine friends.
And I am reminded of the integrity of law enforcement officers. As I recall in the 70’s or so, 75% of NYPD’s drug enforcement branch went down for corruption and crimes.
Oh and lete add where I come from.I’m an Eagle Scout, valedictorian and someone who did a lot of civic duty. I was a Justice of the Peace in CT. I had great respect for our civil servants. Until nearly every example I saw was a bunch of a**holes.
But Jeff, now that I’ve probably royally pissed you off. Let me say this, if you’re a good cop then NONE of this applies to you. Few years back two good cops gave a friend and I a hand pushing his broken down pickup in the cold of winter. If that’s you, none of this applies. And if I ever see you in need, I’ll be there to back you up.
In fact every time I pass an officer on the side of the highway with someone pulled over I slow down and assess the situation to ensure the officer is not in distress.
I support good cops. I oppose thugs of any sort.
Be safe, be a good cop, do the right thing. And we’ll support you bro.
May 10th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
Need to get some reporters to set a trap. All they need is:
A. Have a bunch of cash in a car driven by a reporter’s employee (but don’t tell them who they work for.)
B. Have the receipts from where they got the money. Bank withdraws, bills of sale, etc… hidden in the car.
C. Make secret recording of what the cops says and does when stopped. I’m sure some micro cameras can be hidden very well in cars.
Then when they pull their BS stunts you have proof your cash is legal and also when they try to file and SWEAR what they said, you have them for perjury.
Would be nice to sue the city them AND lock up the cops at the same time. Where is ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX, etc… on this? 60 minutes? Come on, run a trap and see if you can bust some cops.
May 10th, 2012 at 11:40 pm
Jeff from DC:
If officials insist on going full retard police state, any effective opposition will bring as many folks who think similarly to correct these officials safely. Said officials will not be given even the slightest chance to defend themselves.
An effective opponent to a police state is always quite the coward … They should not ever give their opponents a fair fight. Ever.
I suggest supporting the rule of law instead. It protects you from us, as well as protecting us from bad police actions.
May 10th, 2012 at 11:40 pm
Well, if I was a crooked cop, reading this article backwards, I would collude with somebody who had a high-end car for sale, have them insist on cash, at a specific time and place, get a description of the buyer’s car, and arrest and confiscate when they show up. Or if I couldn’t collude with them, I would tap their phone or clone their cell phone to get the same information.
Presto – you are now the chief’s fair haired golden boy for all that seizure money. The same thing would work for gun purchases, drugs, or anything else valuable that changes hands for cash.
May 10th, 2012 at 11:43 pm
Paul, reporters are part of the media.
The media is the propaganda wing of the establishment.
The establishment has created a police state.
What you need for your sting is a journalist, and they are rarer than good cops.
May 10th, 2012 at 11:50 pm
Oh and this might be of interest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5ut6yPrObw
Don’t assume that a bully in uniform will always get his way in this country.
May 11th, 2012 at 6:59 am
He will simply never see the money again. It sucks to be him, but we don’t have rule of law or innocent till proven guilty in this country. The drug war changed all that.
This isn’t like its new, this happens every day its called Civil Asset Forfeiture.
May 11th, 2012 at 7:00 am
In order to get the money back, legally, he has to show he wasn’t drug running, in court. Then after that he has to keep on the cops until they finally give him the money back. This will cost more than 22 thousand dollars in legal fees.
May 11th, 2012 at 9:04 am
Just a couple of points of order, the little lapses that a Philadelphia lawyer could drive a semi through:
A Critic, we don’t live in the “first world.” This is the New World, which by the “third world” formulation was the Second.
Moriarty, your late attorney should have taught you to spell “counsel.” Never take advice from a council.
May 11th, 2012 at 10:10 pm
You know the 99% of cops who have no problem pissing on every principle this country was founded on really give the other 1% a bad name.
And by the way- dealt with a lot of police professionally- no such thing as an “honest cop.”
May 12th, 2012 at 2:56 am
somejerk – your name fits. I come from a family of cops and I have met and dealt with quite a few of them. I also served as a military police officer.
As in all professions you have 95% who are doing the best job they are able to do and 5% who are dirty, stupid or both.
So the whole “no such thing as an honest cop” FUCK YOU.
May 12th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
Simply put, it doesn’t matter if 95% of the cops are honest. 5% bad cop means the entire thing is ruined.
Add 5% fecal matter to a barrel of spring water. Does it matter that 95% is pure spring water or that it’s 5% shit?
Drink up!
If you are in a department of 20 and 5% is corrupt, you have one officer who’s corrupt. WHAT HAVE YOU PERSONALLY DONE TO RID US OF THAT OFFICER? If you have done something, and it was unsuccessful, you have more than one corrupt officer and that tells us the percentage is higher than 5%. If you did nothing, again the number is higher than 5%.
Plus a reminder, and cops hate to be reminded, you work for us; the citizenry at large. We have delegated our authority to you, not surrendered it completely. When you’re pissed off that we’re angry about the job that’s being done by our employees, we’d just rather see you fired and get someone who will do the job we want done rather than put on a pious cloak of, “I’m not doing anything wrong.”
May 13th, 2012 at 12:37 am
Name ONE profession that doesn’t have people that are corrupt, dishonest, crazy or dangerous?
This attitude of “Oh, those bastard cops” is bullshit.
You want better cops on the streets, the address the city governments that don’t want to spend the money to do proper background checks because it would cost too much, take too long, not give us enough bodies in uniforms.
Take it out on the damn unions that have made deals with those same cities so a cop can’t get fired when he’s caught fucking a hooker in his patrol car while he’s on duty and instead is given a suspension with pay.
And as for the whole “What have you done”. well, I can tell you that my brother has PERSONALLY gotten eight officers fired and had four more removed during their probation period. Now I am so fucking sorry that the well isn’t full of pure sunshine and rainbows for you, but tell me what YOU have done now to make it better?
Real fucking easy to sit on the sidelines and bitch about the game. How bout put some skin in it.
May 13th, 2012 at 12:44 am
As a bonus question: How do you suggest that we make sure all police officers are pure as the driven snow and ready for sainthood? What safeguards would you put in place to GUARANTEE that no officer is corrupted or is not fit to be in uniform?
Also, what have you done in your own industry or workplace to clean up the corruption around you? Someone fucking off on the clock? Did you report them? Get them fired?
Drink up bitch
May 13th, 2012 at 4:20 am
No way is it 5% bad cops. If that was the case, the 95% would drive the bad ones right out of the force. Probably more like 25%-50% these days, at least.
Unfortunately, the whole cop thing these days appears designed to create bad cops. That “us against them” mentality the cops have developed is a very dangerous position to be in. I didn’t see much of that when young, but it is all I see now.
I think NUGUN said it very well.
May 13th, 2012 at 6:30 am
Instinct, when my co-worker has a presumptive right to use deadly force or kidnapping against anyone who doesn’t “respect his authoritah”, I’ll get back to you. Don’t like it? Take off the badge.
May 13th, 2012 at 8:52 am
Most SS officers were very “honest”, refusing to take bribes from the people they oppressed. Doesn’t mean I think they were admirable or represented the values America was founded on.
This country got along fine without permanent, full time police for quite a while. Then came Tammany Hall and the need to pass out honest graft while controlling people. When you volunteer to cash a public paycheck for oppresssing your fellow citizens, you get the respect you deserve. Whether you also take bribes directly from the people is just the icing on the cake.
And, Insight, though I sure did rile you up, I really do hope that you and your entire family enjoy your generous retirement and health benefits, negotiated by your honest union reps with responsible public officials who had nothing but the fiscal well being and safety of the public in mind when they committed to your pay package. Honestly.
(Feel free to curse, we expect that from police now.)
May 13th, 2012 at 11:49 am
Well, somejerk, next time you come home and find all your stuff gone I suggest you don’t call the police then since they are so abhorrent to you.
And me and mine actually hate the unions. I know that must be a shock to you.
And I notice you all avoided my questions. Figures.
May 13th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
Your brother did a bang up job getting eight guys fired; but that isn’t YOU is it?
What have I done? I got three fired and the chief kicked out by going to city council meetings and complaining about our lazy jackbooted cretins with badges.
Got thanked by other members of the department.
Got a puzzled look when I asked them why they didn’t help us citizens.
I have come home and found all my stuff gone. Calling the police had the exact same outcome as not calling. I wasn’t wealthy enough for the value of all my worldly possessions meet the minimum level to start an investigation. Those started at $10k. My paltry $1,200 in stuff was not worth the police’s time.
Actually, that’s not quite true. If I had not filed a police report then when I found the asshole with my stuff I could have taken it back with the help of some burly friends and nothing would have pointed to me. But I called the cops, again, and they said that since I couldn’t PROVE that it was my stuff they couldn’t do anything.
But, pray continue to tell us how valuable you are to us. Except you aren’t, really.
May 13th, 2012 at 7:12 pm
I dId my job, and as an MP we didn’t have police corruption because it was very easy to get rid of the fuckups. And since I haven’t had any problems with the cops where I live I haven’t gone and played super citizen like you.
May 13th, 2012 at 7:14 pm
Now tell us how you plan to make sure departments are pure as the driven snow? Or should we all just handle our own business and do vigilante justice?
May 14th, 2012 at 8:46 am
This was mentioned years ago about how the police allow the drug traffic to flow North from Florida, but catch the perps on the way back South with the cash. Officers have almost come to blows over who “got the stop” so they could score the big cash win. Fortunately our drug warriors are honest and pure and would never handle dirty money, even though they allowed the drugs to be delivered so that they would have a shot at the cash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M2ndwlmBOY
The hell with ending the drug war, there must be accountability past voting for pensions. You cannot give absolute power to any person without expecting corruption and turning the rule of law into a for profit operation.