From Southern Precision Tooling: The 260 Dingo
I mentioned their suppressor, The Church Mouse, a bit back. The other neat thing they should be was the 260 Dingo cartridge. Here it is:
It’s 6.5mm, 100 grain bullet that hits speeds of 3,700 feet per second. With their proprietary muzzle device, recoil is basically like an AR. But here’s the thing that interested me. A fired round and an unfired cartridge:
See that? How it blew out. They said that is because the case is fire formed and expands when fired, giving the round more oomph. Never heard of such a thing. I didn’t know it was a thing.
April 21st, 2015 at 7:25 pm
So once you shoot it, can you reload it? And how many times?
April 21st, 2015 at 7:25 pm
As someone who doesn’t reload, it didn’t occur to me to ask.
April 21st, 2015 at 7:39 pm
That’s generally how you make brass for wildcats or even standard cartridges for which factory brass is unavailable, hard to come by, or not good.
April 21st, 2015 at 8:31 pm
Gotta be hard on case life, I’d think. If you can reload that brass, I’d imagine it wouldn’t be often.
April 21st, 2015 at 9:05 pm
Properly fire formed brass can usually be reloaded about as many times as standard brass. Brass is very malleable and is to change in size, within limits. Us Old timers have been doing this for decades, and we learned it from older old timers who’ve been doing it for decades before us. Just look up anything by P.O. Ackley to see some really interesting examples.
FormerFlyer
April 21st, 2015 at 9:31 pm
but is this fireforming an intended part of the interior ballistics of the cartridge?
as in it flattens the pressure curve or something. I’d think that the energy used to change the shape of the case is not pushing the bullet.
April 21st, 2015 at 9:58 pm
Yes, fire-forming is a thing. Generally, a larger case volume allows more velocity, assuming you utilize it. I am unsure why this is surprising. Um,… just so you know; the process of fire-forming itself does not increase velocity to an appreciable degree. The “resulting” chamber volume and powder charge (all else being equal) are the predominate factors.
April 21st, 2015 at 10:06 pm
Well you’re not going to be full length sizing it back to the original shape, that’s for sure, and I don’t see why you would want to.
I knew about fire forming, but I’ve never heard of it being a feature of factory ammo before. Doesn’t make sense to me on the face of it, but I need more info.
April 22nd, 2015 at 3:18 am
The Ackley “improved” line of wildcats were designed to load and fire the parent cartridge, and in doing so fire formed the standard brass into a wildcat cartridge with the improved case capacity.
April 22nd, 2015 at 3:19 am
Fireforming is a “thing” for making brass for one caliber, often wildcat, from another. I have never heard of it as an intended thing to happen as part of designed firing cycle. I don’t think it gives more anything much less “oomph”.
April 22nd, 2015 at 3:48 am
Proper fire forming is done with just enough powder to get the bullet out of the barrel. Yes, you can use more but why? It just beats the brass more than needed.
It’s the NEXT loading – with the now larger case and capacity – that gives the oomph.
As other posters have noted, it looks just like an Ackley Improved ‘wildcat’ round having the customary longer body and sharper shoulder angle.
April 22nd, 2015 at 4:03 am
Forgot to ask, 6.5 x what?
April 22nd, 2015 at 9:43 am
I obviously came late to this thread. But yeah, this is definitely an old fashioned (and well known) method of forming wildcats from more commonly available parent brass.
The extra case capacity that results from fire forming in the larger chamber gives the oomph and you aren’t supposed to do it with full power loads. It’s a step in the case making process BEFORE you reload your new wildcat.
This is the first I’ve heard of a company controlling the pressure curve by deforming the case. I wouldn’t imagine it eats very much of the pressure at all and I would think that a full blast load that results in significant case deformation would greatly increase the risk of a rupture. The whole point of putting cases in tightly fitting chambers is to support the case walls. One of the benefits of reloading your once fired brass is that the case perfectly matches your chamber shape after the first firing.
April 22nd, 2015 at 10:51 am
So it looks like they necked down a .30-06 to .260 then fired it in a rifle chambered for the .260 Ackley and that’s supposed to be some big deal?
These guys are frauds, fire-forming brass does nothing to increase velocity.
The improvement in performance doesn’t happen until after you reload the reshaped cases which can now hold more powder.
April 22nd, 2015 at 10:51 am
I want it just because they called it the .260 Dingo. When you have a dingo, wouldn’t you want a round named after him?
That being said, I hope they make a neck sizing die available and save your brass at the range on that first firing! Unfortunately, the company doesn’t appear to have a website with more info on the cartridge or barrel to take it. Forming it from .223 by the looks of it. Pretty cool!
I admire wildcatters. I just don’t have the stones to do something like this! Impressive though that they are using fire forming as a standard way to get your brass.
April 22nd, 2015 at 3:55 pm
I have a 6.5/280 RCBS that looks a lot like that. Starts with the 280 Rem case, you neck it to 6.5, then fireform it to get the final shape. The RCBS case has a 30deg shoulder instead of Ackleys 40deg shoulder. I’m getting about the same velocity, but I use heavier 140g bullets. It’s been a great deer gun.
April 22nd, 2015 at 4:11 pm
Frauds? Who have they defrauded? I mean what with it not being sold and all.
April 22nd, 2015 at 4:20 pm
oh look… a 6.5 100gr at 3550fps…
http://www.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/65-06-a-square/
thats a normal 6.5mm-06
April 22nd, 2015 at 4:22 pm
While I wouldn’t call SPT frauds, all they really did was give their take on 6.5-06 AI, a known wildcat cartridge, a fancy name.
For example:
http://www.accuratereloading.com/6.506improved.html
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/6-5-06-ackley-improved-data-my-data-so-far-whats-yours-76810/
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/6-5-06-ackley-improved-any-thoughts-36965/
Back to the question at hand, you can form the brass for such a wildcat from basically any case in the .30-06/.30-03 family, like .30-06, .280 Rem., .25-06, or .270 Win.
Also, I’m sure that when you paraphrased SPT by writing “they said that is because the case is fire formed and expands when fired, giving the round more oomph”, they probably meant that the FORMED case would have more oomph (versus a straightforward 6.5-06). As others have said, you generally fireform using fairly mild loads so as to not ruin your brass.
Finally, if you want mega-speed out of a 6.5mm bullet, it’d be easier just to do something like 6.5-284 on the lower end to .26 Nosler on the higher end.
April 22nd, 2015 at 5:21 pm
ring: I can’t find any data on .260 Dingo (SPT doesn’t even have a website as such).
But I suspect it’s shorter than .30-06, and that’s nice for people who want a shorter action?
(If, as suggested, it’s really 6.5-06 AI, then there’s just the possibility of holding more powder, thus “Improved”.
Though I’m not sure who cares anyway; is the difference between 6.5×55 at ~3200 fps really that relevant for anyone sane?
I mean, those are the 100-grain speeds; for “real” use people use 140s, but our data on the Dingo here is for 100s.
What’s it … for?)
April 23rd, 2015 at 9:11 pm
An inferior cartridge, since it cannot be fired from a Mosin-Nagant.
https://youtu.be/Z73y2yw82cM
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