Guns in Bars
Another mass shooting stopped by a carry permit holder:
In the small town of Winnemucca Nevada a man bent on performing a mass shooting at a bar was stopped by an armed CCW permit holder who happened to be in the right place at the right time. The alleged mass murderer had already killed two victims & had injured two others with gunshot wounds, but while he was reloading he was shot & killed by an armed CCW permit holder who was also at the bar.
Mass murderers stopped by armed citizens seems to be a theme.
In Tennessee, House Speaker Naifeh keeps killing the bill that allows handgun carry permit holders to carry where alcohol is served.
May 28th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
This is a major blow to the anti Bill of Rights crowd. In their minds, their cause would have been served if the killer had been allowed to continue unopposed. Having a mass killing stopped by an armed citizen is the worst thing that could happen, both to anti 2A activists and to killers everywhere.
May 28th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Yes, Speaker Naifeh did kill the bill, but there’s one thing about him you simply must remember that explains all of his behavior.
He’s an insufferable asshole.
May 28th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
and, surprise, surprise – not in the mainstream media!
May 28th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
What? No one was killed by crossfire? Another hole gets punched in the logic of the anti rights crowd.
May 28th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Breda Says:
May 28th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
and, surprise, surprise – not in the mainstream media!
————————————————————————————–
But you can bet your bippy that had the gunman killed everyone in the bar and then himself it would’ve been.
May 28th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
“…not in the mainstream media!”
I’m Shocked. Shocked I tell you!
Why would they report it? It runs counter to their action line, so it would be self defeating (almost as suicidal as a public school teaching the benefits of a free market)
May 28th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
“In Tennessee, House Speaker Naifeh keeps killing the bill that allows handgun carry permit holders to carry where alcohol is served.”
Not trying to stir up trouble (I’m all for the CCW, and down here in Texas, actually feel better for it), but I’d be uncomfortable with the idea of concealed weapons in a place where alcohol is consumed. All it takes is one drunken brawl that escalates into a shootout and the naysayers will use the event for years.
Is there something else to the House proposal?
Great story, tho.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
I have a CCW permit. Since when does a CCW permit allow you to legally carry a gun in a bar? Here in Florida it sure as hell doesn’t.
@Lyle
Get off the “the mainstream media” is a big conspiracy against my points of view train. It just makes you sound like a paranoid person looking for excuses.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
In Colorado, there is no restriction on carrying in a bar or other place where alcohol is served. In five years since the state became a shall issue state there have been no problems with CCW permit holders.
The drunken brawl shooting mayhem theme is anti-2A propaganda.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Nevada CCW is very liberal, bars casinos you name it are allowed.
I live in FL, too, many more restrictions. Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
JasonY – in that case, you shouldn’t be comfortable with people driving home from bars either. Seems there’s a lot more death/injury associated with automobiles+alcohol than there is with guns+alcohol.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Minnesota has five years of history. Carry is allowed almost everywhere (including bars). NO problems.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:26 am
My state does not allow CCW in bars. About the only bar I go into is the American Legion for the Saturday night band and some dancing. Average age in there is pretty high, so it’s not exactly a trouble spot. Okay with me.
But I carry in there and really don’t care what my political “betters” think. My limit is two beers and I have learned to avoid trouble I don’t have to have. If that’s illegal, so be it. The point is I have it if I need it. The rest is details.
OTOH there was a move afoot here a few years ago to allow concealed carry by anyone over 21, similar to NH and AK law. Considering how a lot of young bucks in that age range drive, the last thing I want to see is a law that encourages them to pack iron.
In other words–it all depends.
I choose to carry 99% of the time and let the chips fall where they may.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:38 am
I’d like to buy that man a beer.
May 29th, 2008 at 1:31 am
I live in Nevada and the episode was reported on local TV news. It was reported that the shooting incident was spurred by a long standing Winnemucca family feud. Since the gunman was attempting to reload it looks like he was intending to shoot more people after he killed his two intended victims and injured two others. The Reno man with the CCW was just visiting Winnemucca and pulled his firearm to save some lives. There is no restriction on CCW carry in bars, banks or casinos (or pretty much anywhere else unless there is a metal detector and a place to securely store the firearm according to Nevada Revised Statutes).
Not allowing CCW carry in bars does not prevent guns being in bars or shooting brawls, just like anti-gun laws don’t prevent gun crime elsewhere.
May 29th, 2008 at 1:35 am
One last point. The sheriff’s office questioned the Reno CCW holder and the witnesses and immediately released the Reno man saying on TV that his actions were justified. Hurray for Nevada Law Enforcement!
May 29th, 2008 at 1:50 am
So why hasn;t anyone done anything about Bush/Cheney/Rove yet?
May 29th, 2008 at 2:05 am
Expect a visit from the Secret Service, Hitlery.
May 29th, 2008 at 4:23 am
Huh. I grew up only 50 miles away from Winnemmucca. Still go through there several times a year on my way to visit my parents. While I wouldn’t say I’d never expect something like that to happen there, it still surprised me.
Interesting that the guy who stopped it was from Reno. Also not surprising. Northern Nevada is awash with guns, but concealed carry doesn’t seem very common in the rural areas, at least in my experience. Could be that people are just good about concealed meaning concealed, but I didn’t know anyone who had a CCW permit while I was living there, and no one I knew talked about getting one.
May 29th, 2008 at 6:31 am
JasonY-
As a TN resident, let me outline some of the issues with this law, and why it’s stupid:
1) It’s redundant – As a permit holder, anytime I am under the influence of alcohol, my permit is not valid – whether I’m in a bar or not.
2) The business owner always has the right to prohibit firearms on his/her property, and that carries the force of law.
3) Permit holders have generally shown themselves to be willing to spend time, money and effort to ensure that they are well trained and law-abiding. They generally aren’t the ones likely to go on a drunken rampage in a bar. Plus, with or without this law, the guy who DOES go on said drunken rampage has already committed a felony in the process.
Bottom line: I don’t even drink, but I can carry in a liquor store but NOT in TGIFridays? C’mon.
As for feeling uncomfortable with the idea of others carrying in a bar, get used to it – I can assure you that it happens all the time – all over the US, no doubt.
Now why we hate Naifeh… That’s a whole different post. Not going there.
May 29th, 2008 at 6:47 am
Wasn’t the crux of this story in that this NRA sharpshooter didn’t wait for the militia to show up and took the law into his own hands? Jeez, those doggone people in flyover states, of course concerning Winnemucca everyone wants to fly over it, are simply not nuanced enough to notice the correct and most current Critical Law Theory article on how the constitution is simply a dead document of the patriarchy with homoerotic shadings and the phallo-centric oppression of the “Other.”
May 29th, 2008 at 7:00 am
Hey, JasonY–
You say “I’d be uncomfortable with the idea of concealed weapons in a place where alcohol is consumed” –please explain exactly HOW uncomfortable you’d be relative to the hard fact that this lunatic just carried an UNconcelaed weapon into a bar and would have killed many more fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers if some brave soul had not taken him out??
A law against carrying weapons into a bar demonstrably does not keep people with no regard for the law from doing exactly that. But a law allowing it keeps the rest of us safe from their murderous intentions.
That’s what I call comfort –get with it, my man.
May 29th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Joe said:
“I don’t even drink, but I can carry in a liquor store but NOT in TGIFridays? C’mon.”
I thought that carry inside a liquor store was illegal in TN. I went to the Gatlinburg Package Store (on HWY 441) recently, and they had a sign behind the counter stating that carry of “weapons” (not just firearms?!) was punishable by imprisonment of 11 months and 29 days (or some such).
Gun control laws are illogical, though.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:16 am
@Glock27
That may be true. But, you can be damn sure that if you are a CCW holder in that bar, and you have anything but a diet coke in front of you, you run the risk of going to jail yourself. The Colorado law does preclude treat drinking and carrying.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Naifeh has a legitimate reason for opposing concealed-carry: permitting it deprives him and progressives of victims for their message. Nothing sells government seizure and control of your life like death! Schools, for instance, are great marketing opportunities: every Columbine helps push more government control. Kiddie deaths are great promotional opportunities.
One-hundred million (approximate) deaths in the twentieth-century on behalf of progressivism are hard to argue with (not including the death of inferior race aborted babies).
May 29th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Naifeh has a permit to carry, iirc. Apparently, his killing pro-gun bills is the result of a personal dispute with someone on the pro-gun side. Or so i’ve been told.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:27 am
TO: SayUncle, et al.
RE: Nice to Know
Did this guy lose his CCW permit for being in a place where liquor is sold and drunk while carrying his weapon?
That’s what would happen in Colorado for saving lives in this manner.
Bars, in Colorado, are just like schools and hospitals. No weapons. I.e., a ‘shooting gallery’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
May 29th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
As far as businesses that place the “no conceled weapons allowed” signs up. I propose that if an establishment wishes to prohibit a lawful CCW holder from protecting himself, thats fine, but that that establishment then accepts the responsibility of providing that protection. I have been saying for some time that the first time a CCW permit holder is injured in a shopping mall, college campus, YMCA, etc. and is not carring his weapon due to these restrictions (placed by the place of business, not by legal statute) that the law suit that ensues should be enough to ensue that no business will ever again post one of these signs. Can you imagine the local mall taking on the responcibility for the protection of hundreds of patrons?
May 29th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Strangely enough, here in Virginia concealed carry is illegal in places licensed to serve alcohol, but open carry is legal in the same places. There are no bars in Virginia, only restaurants licensed to serve alcohol on-premises, so the same restrictions apply in the student-filled bars downtown and the high-end italian restaurant on the other end of town.
Personally, I’d rather have it the other way around. The CHP holders aren’t the ones people need to worry about, but it doesn’t take much to imagine some drunk idiot thinking it would be cool to try to grab someone’s weapon that’s out in the open. If it’s concealed, they won’t be tempted because they won’t know about it, and they’d have to get past whatever is concealing it to grab it anyway.
May 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
JasonY, let me put thisn the easy way. When it comes to carrying firearms there are basically three types of people:
1. Those without CCW who don’t care and will carry their guns anyway. They are already breaking the law by carrying, so don’t expect them to care about any “gun free zones” such as bars. These are the most irresponsible and potentially dangerous people.
2. Those without CCW who don’t carry guns either because it is ilegal or because they don’t want to. Any change to carry lays in bars, schools or any other currently “gun free zone” will not affect their behavior as they are responsible law-abiding citizens. I suspect you fall into this group.
3. Those with CCW who may legally choose to carry their gun. These people have taken the time and expense to legally carry a concealed weapon. As you can see, they are, as demonstrated by their actions and verified by criminal background check, responsible law abiding citizend as well. As such, most are unlikely to carry weapons into places where they are prohibited. If, however, they are inclined to carry all the time (as Bat Guano seems to be), then they, too, would be unaffected by laws prohibiting carry.
In summary, the only group of people who will vary their behavior based upon “gun free zones” are the responsible law-abiding citizens with CCW, exactly those who are best prepared to respond should someone in the first group decide to be bad. In light of this, a more logical reaction might be to be uncomfortable with the idea of legally carried concealed weapons not in a place where alcohol is consumed.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:05 am
Cheers for Bat Guano (Bat, remember me from the ‘old days’?). i’m in the same frame of mind and I’ve been carrying seriously since 9-11 occurred. I, too, let the chips fall where they may because I prefer to live. I had once recently where I had to come out with the weapon (didn’t have to fire) and was commended by the sheriff department for my actions. The recipient of my action got tried and sentenced.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
If gun control will save just one life we should do it even if thousands of defenseless people die because of it.
Sarah Brady
May 31st, 2008 at 12:21 am
I travel alot here in USA. Most hotels I stay at leave USA Today outside my door every morning. I consider it a most wasteful use of newsprint. I never even stoop to pick it up off of the floor. If they don’t stop it I’m gonna start pissing on it every morning.
Saw another article today about making it legal to travel in National Parks with a weapon.
In my entire life, I absolutely guarantee you I’ve never travelled in a NP without a weapon at any time, including a drive of the entire length of Blue Ridge Parkway and Shenandoah NP.
They can kiss every bit of my lily white ass!