What could possibly go wrong?
38 Responses to “What could possibly go wrong?”
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February 5th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
so, what WOULD be “pragmatic” in your eternal wisdom?
February 5th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
I like the idea. Of course, none of us could carry.
February 5th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Tom, didn’t say this wasn’t pragmatic. but i do know how the DC police operate.
February 5th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
I love it! Hold the event, and watch as none of the Threepers are willing to put their money where their mouth is. You know, like NOLA when they all saddled up to go fight the power…oh wait, that’s right.
February 5th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
biggest problem is that if we did not flood DC with people then this would be used against us to show how little support guns really have.
This would be an all or nothing event, we have to be so big they can’t spin it or we will do more harm to our cause than we may be able to fix. . . .
Think of all the crap the Moms got after all the hype and like 1/10 of the people showed up. . .
February 5th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
So Caleb, you’re advocating the 3pers start a war while marching on DC?
February 5th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I think Caleb is advocating that the Threepers quit their saber-rattling. And if he’s not, I am.
February 5th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Caleb:
Let me get this straight: walking unarmed down the streets of one of the most dangerous cities in the civilized world to protest the cops is “putting your money where your mouth is”? I won’t be going for the same reason I would never “make a stand” in NOLA: it’s utter foolishness.
Grow up and stop calling “triple dog dare” as a debating tactic. It’s puerile.
February 5th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Hypnagogue
I have to say that in all the times any I’ve been to DC, especially in the areas near the monuments and government buildings, I’ve never had any trouble. The same goes for my family and my friends who work in DC. There are dangerous places, but the National Mall and Capitol Hill are probably no more dangerous than your local town square. Obviously bad things can happen, but we’re not exactly talking Mogadishu here.
February 5th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
That’s where you are wrong. The murder rate in DC is 16% higher than Somalia.
February 5th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Most legal firearm owners work for a living and can’t use their precious 2 weeks of vacation (if that) to travel to one of the most expensive cities in the USA. The reason the million (black) man march could get marchers is that there were 200,000 unemployed black men in DC and Baltimore alone who had nothing better to do that day. Give each one $5, put them on a bus to the mall, and you have a successful march in the eyes of the liberal media, even though they didn’t get their million men.
February 5th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
So, basically what you’re saying is that you’re chicken? I mean, right here – an opportunity to show your government how strong the gun owners of this nation are, and but you’re not willing to be part of it because you’re scared.
Awesome. And that’s not a triple dog dare, this is me saying that you people are full of crap – you’ll talk until you’re blue in the face about shooting cops and soldiers, but given an opportunity to support something legal that could have a powerful PR benefit and you’re the first to make excuses.
February 5th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
That’s where you are wrong. The murder rate in DC is 16% higher than Somalia.
Apples to oranges. First, try DC to Mogadishu. Second, try the Mall/Hill areas compared to Mogadishu (I presume you don’t intend to chillax in Anacostia). Staying at a hotel in Northern Virginia, taking the Metro to the Mall/Hill, and then taking it back isn’t all that dangerous. I’m going to guess that fewer than a half-dozen crackheads with RPGs will try and assault you and steal your SKS and gold.
If the Threepers were ever going to do something, they would have already.
February 5th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
I’m with JD, it would have to be a huge event to really make the point that gun owners and gun rights believers are a force to be reckoned with in America.
And as a guy that works every day for my living and my precious days of vacation, I most certainly would spend a few of those days to stand and be counted as a Citizen and not a subject. I’ve already sent a link to this article to my gun friends to see who would be willing to hire a bus, (from Utah) to make the roadtrip. Sure it would be expensive in time and money. But who told you freedom from tyranny would be easy or cheap?
February 5th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
So because one guy says he’s not going to go, like most pathetic loudmouth prags, you claim 3pers are cowards?
Here’s an opportunity for you prags to put up or shut up and your guys (uncle, sebastian, ben) are the ones bitching and moaning about it. You really do that a lot, dontcha?
I’ll be there. I’ll even shoot some video so you guys see what you missed while being “pragmatic” and leaving it up to someone else, as usual.
February 5th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
I’m bitching and moaning?
February 5th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Two issues to address here:
First, as ben says, rent-a-mobs are often the vehicle to big DC turnouts, and no matter how important the issue, feeding one’s children tends to be pretty important too–particularly when the boss is hinting that you don’t want to do anything than can be construed as a career move in an economy like this one.
Second, and I seem to be just about the only one bringing this up, don’t you think some bright spark on the other side is looking at this idea and saying, “Instant AWB: just add incident. Result!!!” Wouldn’t take but a couple infiltrators to do all manner of mischief on the national teevee.
Not saying these two issues make the idea a bad one, but they must be addressed and planned around to the extent possible.
February 5th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
So what’s the over/under on this turning into a bunch of gun owners protesting each other as seen in the comments?
Meh.
I may as well go join the Brady Campaign instead. Could probably get more done as a mole behind enemy lines than in the current circular firing squad.
February 5th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
If the Three Percenters are in such small numbers as the Pragmatists claim, then they can hold their parade without loss. Nothing is stopping them from doing so. They merely advance the argument to use against us. They do not seriously wish to do so themselves.
The problem is, as the Pragmatists well know from experience, that few gun owners are the marching type. They have been raised in a different culture than the left. They vote, yes, but they will not march in numbers. This was true in the Clinton years and even more true today.
Now, when enough of them are put out of work? Who knows? The Pragmatists are welcome to try.
Three Percenters, on the other hand, understand that the situation is already beyond political retrieval. We are making practical (dare I say pragmatic?) use of our time, money and effort.
But as I say, if the Pragmatists believe us to be so small in numbers, they hardly need us to bring off their own million man march. They won’t, of course. The whole issue, as evident from the childish tone above, is only raised to call us names.
Personally, I thought better of you Caleb, after meeting you.
But I would urge such Threepers as are engaging in this fol-de-rol to get back to the business of getting ready for the raids. They are coming. In due time, they WILL be coming. Events will shut up our critics far more effectively than arguing with them. They will, in the end, have to fight, fornicate or hit the fence.
February 5th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Sadly, I think illspirit just won the thread.
February 5th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
We have a winner.
February 5th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
“what could go wrong?” That’s dripping with more sarcasm then even Tam can muster.
Yes, illspirit probably did nail it. Glad to see before the website is launched we have dismissed it for personal convenience and comfort. How proud the folks who gave their lives for the country must be.
Send Obama the message that we have given up our rights, pissed on the graves of veterans and formed a circular firing squad to do away with the “gun nut” problem because we’re too unwilling to DO something. While we’re at it, someone send the organizers an email to save their time and effort, include a white flag with a dead rattlesnake swallowing itself.
In a year or two scratch your heads and try to remember that we are the reason for every past infringement and whatever the hell they dream up between now and then.
Enjoy blogging about tools, or flashlights, maybe cars and poker… whatever IS legal to do.
February 5th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
And that’s bitching and moaning?
I didn’t dismiss it. But I’m going to predict it will not end well.
February 5th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
I don’t get it, why advertise one’s three percenter affiliation?
February 5th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Why? Are you saying that gun owners are violent? Are you saying that we’d just chew out cuds if someone was a plant and not shun them?
You “prags” are doing everything you can to make sure it is ignored and doesn’t happen. This “But I’m going to predict it will not end well.” crap is the same as “BLOOD WILL RUN IN THE STREETS wildwest shootout type hysteria the antis spout off with.
Seriously, you can’t SEE that?
February 5th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Honestly, what is up your ass? I made it pretty clear that it won’t end well because of the DC .gov and police. Bank on it. I see random searches, etc. Also, don’t know that participation would be that high.
And I’m doing everything to make sure it’s ignored by, uhm, linking to it. Yeah, that’s it.
It ain’t fucking rocket surgery.
February 5th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
I had a lot of caffeine today, Mike.
February 5th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
“When we reflect that the eyes of the virtuous all over the earth are turned with anxiety on us as the only depositories of the sacred fire of liberty, and that our falling into anarchy would decide forever the destinies of mankind and seal the political heresy that man is incapable of self-government, the only contest between divided friends should be who will dare farthest into the ranks of the common enemy.”
– Thomas Jefferson to John Hollins, 1811. ME 13:58
What are y’all still spittin’ at each other about? The common enemy is THERE. (Hint: Look in any direction.)
February 5th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
The apathy of gun owners is crawling in my colon. The attitude of “we’re better then them” and won’t stoop to their level.
Random searches. Airport, train, anystreet USA. Happens all the time. What’s the problem there? Things like that happen you have video cameras. You adopt the tactics of the other side. You raise holy hell. You use that to your advantage. Do you really think they’d do something to provoke media coverage like that? The antigun MSM is likely to ignore it otherwise, but the videos and alternative media is deployed. You do what Obama is doing and go right to youtube, bypass the press. Do what demos do with the web for a change. Have fliers made up in case that address those kinds of issues and how they apply to other rights as well. Develop the skills that could be used, if the GOP retains any relevance, to further web presence and reintroduce people to the message of smaller government and personal rights that folks on the right have been standing for. Go back to grassroots, REAL grassroots, not simply relying on our side’s joyce foundation and their lobbyists.
Your linking, and title combined seem to be derogatory and dismissive to me. That’s my opinion.
I’m tired of being labeled a wild SNBI screaming nut then having the folks who promote all these other tired old ideas that lack the slick marketing and gimmicks that do nothing to show a unified front, let alone gain the attention of folks on the fence to attract them into the tent shoot down opportunities.
Make it a family vacation to DC, take the wife and kids, spend a day there, then hit the culture. Stand up for your rights. If harassed someone will be there with a camera. Play the game by their rules and stand up to the antigun pricks for a change. How hard is that? How horribly difficult is it to stand united for one damn day?
Why is that such a horrible idea?
February 5th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
“How hard is that? How horribly difficult is it to stand united for one damn day?”
I find it difficult to argue with this.
For the record, I found tone of this post derogatory and dismissive too.
February 5th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
What could go wrong? Hm… lemme see…
1. An outside organization brings one or more firearms (loaded or not, does not really matter) to the shindig, and makes a point of letting the world know they are there.
2. A fellow gunny brings a firearm to the shindig, and either it comes to light, or he lets the world know. (This comment thread alone is evidence that could happen.)
3. Megahumongo hype, and no turnout.
4. Press portrayal of a band of dangerous, violent, revolutionary thugs marching on D.C.
5. Mob mentality kicks in, either instigated by outside forces, or internal.
6. High-strung police (made more high-strung by press portrayal and congressional reaction to this situation) react poorly to a perceived threat.
And that is juts what my little mind can come up with – the list goes on…
Believe you me, I would love for this kind of thing to go off, attend, make our point, and go home without incident, event, or subversion. However, even at my young and naive age, I know better than to think that could ever happen. It is too perfect of an opportunity for outside forces to pervert, it is too perfect of an opportunity for inside forces to exploit, and it is too much of an affront to the very people we are trying to sway.
This is not a fight we are going to win by bullets, this is not a fight we are going to win by arms, this is not a fight we are going to win by shooting folks, this is not a fight we are going to win by any manner of confrontation at all. In fact, confrontation will only serve to weaken our already eroding base. This fight for personal freedoms and rights is one of public opinion, and confrontation sure as hell is not going to improve that.
At first flush, this “march” is, of course, non-confrontational… but then you start to think how it will be perceived by those at the receiving end, how easily it will be perverted by those interested in doing so, and how quickly this entire shindig could go to gos-se, and you realize the cost-benefit analysis will come out undeniably negative in terms of public opinion.
I wish the organizers and attendees the best of luck and hope they are successful in their goals, but I will not count myself amongst them.
February 5th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
To begin, the phrase “patriot” has been twisted over the years to translate to the general public as “frothing nutjob”, and that ill-timed or ill-planned, a major march on DC has a number of ways of going suddenly south in ways that will make us all pay for years.
I specifically point out several options
(A) low-turnout, resulting in impression we are not representative of any but the fringe (and there aren’t many of us at that, so we may be safely discounted.,
(B) Armed March, looking like rebellion, (if one must stage a rebellion, shouldn’t it really be an amazing surprise?)
(C) the Black Panthers incident in the CA Legislature of some years past, which was what really set off the whole anti-gun thing in the Cali Leg. I’m thinking we don’t need a national version of that clusterfuck.
(D) A reponse like that of Hoover to the Bonus March, with Gen. Douglas MacArthur leading the Army against the veterans.
(E) individual bad actors, available in many flavors ranging from over-enthusiastic marchers behaving badly, anti-gun protesters getting confrontational and frisky, anti sorts posing as pro-gun starting assorted adventure…
And the list goes on…
I’m not opposed to action, merely action that has us either kicking ourselves in the balls, or setting ourselves up in a wide stance wherein we then hang a sign about our collective necks announcing we’ve a fetish for having our balls kicked. Neither sounds fun or productive to me.
As a community our hope, in such instances, is to reach out to the leaders or respected elders of such a movement and discuss our concerns in hopes of encouraging them to attempt placement of the pin back in the grenade that’s been shoved down our collective pants.
There’s a lot of hard work that needs doing, electing friendly sorts, shattering stereotypes, and bringing some common sense to the discussion. Shooting ourselves in the foot, as this March organization seems to be eager to do for all of us on an involuntary basis, is not exactly what we need…unless we’re TRYING to give gifts to Brady & Co.
Gay_Cynic
February 5th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
I have never been the marching type, but I could see myself attending something like this.
On the point of “perception”: the post-modern premises in that complaint are completely fucking disgusting.
Do not take the counsel of fear.
February 5th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
If you wish to attend, more power to you, and all of us who believe in liberty. I believe in the hope of the political process.
However, I will not attend. I will not of free choice go someplace that blatantly pisses on my rights. Please do not take this as attempting to discourage those who would work the political process, risks (stated by many above) and all.
I’m sorry, but I think it is time to plan on the use of last of the boxes we have access to. (soap, ballot, …) Yep, time to plan on it. “God save us all.”
Plan Realistically, Hope Optimistically.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:39 am
Linoge, you are naive. When has the government voluntarily given power?
You have at LEAST 20 years of government indoctrination of children into thinking all guns are always bad ALWAYS. How are you going to change THAT public opinion? Especially since emotion, and not reason, has taken over as the main reason for any kind of debate in this country.
The BEST thing to do is wait until an assault weapons ban and just show up.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Linoge, you are naive. When has the government voluntarily given power?
The end of slavery in the Union (The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to rebelling states, not Union states)
The end of Segregation.
The repeal of Prohibition.
Women’s suffrage.
The legalization of homosexuality.
Need I go on?
February 6th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
That, and the whole AWB thing… that, y’know, expired and was not renewed…
February 6th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Exactly. If we would actually get a million people (not necessarily gun owners – I doubt all the “moms” were mothers, either) to show up, that would be wonderful. If we could get an incredibly tiny number to show up – say, maybe three – that would be even better. What better way to parody the whole “Million X March” syndrome of the 1990s, where no “Million X March” came anywhere close to a million participants, and each produced only a tiny fraction of its predecessor?
My fear is that the Million Gun Owner March will get more participants than the Million Gun-Hating Bitches March did, but not by a big enough margin for that to register.