Gun safety
Les and Jeff discuss the incident of an officer who got his jacket draw string stuck in his trigger guard and then shot himself in the buttocks. Both imply that the Glock may not be safe. I disagree. It’s safe if you follow the rules of gun safety and handling. In this case, making certain that the weapon was clear of objects prior to holstering would have prevented this incident.
Now, people in the gun world seem awful quick to criticize the Glock and people seem awful quick to defend it. But I think Les summed it up best in comments:
But some guns give a little more margin of error than others for times when our gun safety is less than perfect.
I think that’s true but I also think gizmos and gadgets should never be a substitute for gun safety.
February 10th, 2006 at 12:22 pm
Personal theory: Since cops are so fond of Glocks, and many if not most police departments use them, I theorize the cops started the “Glocks are not safe” meme in order to cover their own stupidity.
After all, if a cop, who presumably has had much more intensive firearms training than an average citizen, shoots himself accidentally, why then should us Joe Schmoes defer to cops on the subject of gun safety? Kinda undercuts the “I’m a cop so I’m a gun expert” argument.
February 10th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
No where in my post did I state that Glocks are dangerous. I specifically took pains (because I knew there would be Glock enthusiasts who disagree) to say:
“They are well made, reliable, and accurate. But they were not for me. I simply wasn’t comfortable with the lack of a real safety switch (as it were) when carrying with a chambered round. All guns are dangerous and have to be handled with great care. I acknowledge that but was never happy with just a trigger safety.”
And:
“My purpose here is not to tell you that Glocks are bad — they aren’t and if you’re comfortable with them, with carrying them, then Godspeed.”
I thought I was clear that it was I, ME, that felt uncomfortable with them.
The issue (and the reason for the post) was to warn of the hazard that something such as a drawstring on a windbreaker could cause.
February 10th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Jeff, it wasn’t you. I got some emails and comments about it. I concur, windbreakers can kill 😉
February 12th, 2006 at 6:50 pm
Thats why I prefer the Springfield XD. Similar system, but with a 1991-style grip safety.
Safer to holster and safer to unholster with a windbreaker cord, yet nothing mechanical to remember to do before pulling the trigger when a bang is required.
February 13th, 2006 at 12:41 am
Safety switches are not a replacement for training, for the simple reason that a weapon can also be too safe, and this is as big a problem as an unsafe weapon.
The Army has a lot of experience with safeties. One area was Vietnam era fragmentation grenades. People reported problems with grenade pull rings (a safety) getting caught on vegitation and causing grenades to explode unintentionally. (I assume they said this because fragging an officer was punishable offense. Claiming his grenade ring got caught on a stick wasn’t.)
So the Army answer was to add a little metal clip that you had to pull off the grenade in addition to pulling the ring pin before the spoon would release and the grenade would detonate. That was still the case when Mogodishu (sp?) came around and our Rangers had thier problems. One of those Rangers threw three grenades properly, pulling the clip, then the ring, then throwing. The fourth one that he threw came sailing back over the wall. The Army concluded that he forgot to pull the metal clip on the fourth grenade, and the enemy DID pull it and sent it back where it came from.
If your training is insufficient, you will not operate the weapon properly. If your weapon has no manual safety, this may result in an unintentional discharge. If your weapon has a manual safety and you fail to operate that properly, which is much more likely in a time of intense stress (like when you are on your fourth grenade, or when you have had to use your concealed weapon on no notice and for the first time in your life) then the weapon will fail to operate. I’ll take the second option. The first one is likely to wound me — the second is likely to get me killed.
February 13th, 2006 at 12:43 am
Correction: I’ll take the first option, risking the unintentional discharge rather than the failed intentional discharge.
February 13th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Did the clip prevent the pin from being pulled, or did it prevent the grenade from exploding after the pin was pulled? The second case is just plain bad design. In the first case, the Ranger forgot the most important step – making sure you’ve got the pin loose in one hand before you throw the grenade in your other hand. It’s a mistake men have made with grenades without the safety clip, too. (I suspect that throwing three in a row contributed to the problem – maybe he did have a pin in his nonthrowing hand, but it was from #2 rather than #3) Like other mistakes in the heat of battle, this can get you or your buddies killed, but your chances of surviving this mistake are much better than if the pin got pulled without you realizing it.
If I was designing a grenade, I would follow these rules for arming:
1) It takes two steps to arm. E.g., remove safety clip and pull pin, or maybe even just remove the grenade from the carrying sling that protects the pin and is the only approved way of carrying them once they are removed from the box.
2) Step 2 cannot be performed until you complete step 1
3) You can tell without looking if step 2 is done – even if your fingers are numb, as much as possible.
4) Neither of the steps is hard or slow.
Grenades aren’t supposed to be safe. Teach an idiot a complicated arming sequence, and he will perform it perfectly, then throw the grenade into a tree limb that bounces it right back… But you do need to be able to walk through dense brush without worrying about the grenades going off accidentally.
February 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
The clip prevented the spoon (the trigger) from operating until being removed. After Somalia, the Army changed its proceedure to removing the clips before going into combat. The Navy Seals, on the other hand, adopted a practice of attaching a piece of tape to the pull ring, and then wrapping the loose end around the head of the grenade, which stopped pin rattle (the main goal) and also taking into account your intent of the secondary safety being necessary to remove before pulling the ring pin. IIRC, Army paratroopers later adopted this technique to insure that pins don’t work loose during airdrops.
February 15th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
Oh, and the pull strength of a grenade pin is 20-25 pounds perpendicular to the head, and around 100 pounds at various angles, until it reaches a point at about 60 degrees off center where the pin shears at over 100 pounds rather than pulling. I just don’t see any amount of brush managing to accidentally pull a pin.