I’m gonna go ahead and disagree
Property rights. I love ’em. Seems in Texas, they’re pushing a bill that forces employers to allow employees to keep weapons in their car. Sebastian says that’s not cool:
It’s true that employers are preventing employees from exercising a right, but employers are generally free to do this. Employers may dictate how you dress, what time you come to work, what you may or may not say on behalf of the company, what you can or can’t say in the workplace or to customers.
Here’s where I disagree. And it’s not because I’m the gun-nuttiest gun nut of all time but rather it’s because of one simple thing: My vehicle is my property. No matter where I park it. It’s my little portable home. I control what’s in it. And my employer will not tell me what I can and can not have in it.
Banning them on-premises, however, is a different ball of wax.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:09 am
I agree with you that your employer has no say over what you can and can’t have in your vehicle. I’d tell my employer to fuck off in a heart beat if they tried to search my car or tried to make what was in it any of their business.
But where we probably disagree is that I don’t think the government ought to get involved in those types of disputes between private parties. I would hope if I had a showdown with my employer over my vehicle that they wouldn’t fire me, but I accept that they could, and probably would. But that’s their prerogative as far as I’m concerned.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:12 am
Then I don’t guess we disagree that much.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:28 am
The Tennessee Firearms Association has been pushing that same legislation for several years — which is only one of the many reason I support the TFA.
I don’t have a problem with an employer keeping guns off their property. But if the employer is going to strip me of my right to defend myself on the way to and from work, then the employer should be required to assume responsibility for my safety during that time. That is, if I get killed during a carjacking then the employer should pay my widow millions in compensation.
Otherwise, accept the fact that what I have in my vehicle is my own damn business and quit telling me what to do.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:36 am
I’m not going to use my “real” name here in case of any snooping employers, but for the record, I carry to work every day. The company I work for does not have a specific policy forbidding it, but I’m absolutely sure they would freak out, and if they didn’t outright fire me, would definitely put me on the short list to be “downsized”. Even if they did add a policy, it would not alter my behavior. As far as I’m concerned, what I have on my person is none of my employers damned business, and policy isn’t going to change that.
I don’t ask for the government to give me protection from being fired, just as I wouldn’t ask the government to make a friend who didn’t want me bringing a gun around them, and caught me doing it, to keep associating with me. Violating an agreement in a relationship might cause one party to not want to keep it anymore.
My philosophy has always been, keep it concealed, keep your mouth shut, and you won’t have any problems. I hate that we live in a world where we can’t be “out” with what we believe, but there are a lot of GFWs who unfortunately make that impossible for us.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:20 pm
What AlphaPatriot says. You’ve got the right to make the rules for your own property, but you’re also responsible for the consequences of those rules. Make people check guns at the entrance to your place, become responsible for their safety until they leave. Ban guns from the building without a place to check them, become responsible during the walk to and from the car, too. Ban them from the parking lot, become responsible for the whole trip.
And this should especially apply to government agencies…
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Just wondering, but, legally speaking, I think a car is moveable property, not real property (aka, land or a house/structure). Rules are different for each type.
If your employer can say no guns in your backpack or briefcase on company property, why not your car?
And what’s to stop you from parking off company property
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 pm
My employer has a “no guns on company property” but leases office space in a building where other private firms do as well. There is no assigned parking in the lots, so anyone who works or visits the building may park in any space they choose. According to my employer, the parking lot is “company property” and as such is part of the prohibited area where no firearms are allowed whether locked in my vehicle or not. I disagree. I see company property as the threshold of the doors to enter the office area and any other part of the building or parking lot is the property of the building’s owner. I hope I won’t have to argue these finer points in a court of law but my guns travel with me to and from work … period.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Seriously, these policies are not going to stop the bad guys. Why in the world should they stop us? If you live in a state where the only thing you’re risking is your job, why not carry despite what the policy says? If you’re concealing, and I think most of us who carry regularly know how to do that without getting “made”, there shouldn’t be a problem. I don’t think any job is worth your life, and I don’t think any employer who treats their employees with such wanton disrespect, that they regularly search them or their vehicles for contraband, really deserve to have you as an employee.
Also consider that raising awareness of this issue, and bringing it to a head, could create problems for people like myself who will discretely carry regardless of a written policy, or prompt business who do not currently have policies to enact them. I really do believe this is an issue that’s best left alone, and we’re best concealing and keeping quiet.
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:38 pm
My wife is TXCHL licensed and drives 25 miles to work and good jobs are hard to find. Employer policy forbids firearms on employer property. Policy also dictates that employees will park on company property and “across the street” property owners do not want company employees in their parking lots. Wife’s employer uses dogs to sniff for contraband and a “hit” is grounds for a dismissal. Company lawyer and board of directors are too dumb to think outside of a small politically correct box. A multi-million $ judgement would do wonders for their intelligence.
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Man, what kind of people do you folks work for that they do crap like this? I can’t imagine how anyone justifies treating another person with such wanton condescension. I have to admit don’t get why anyone would want to put up with it. The day my employer brings drug sniffing dogs anywhere near my car is the day I tell them “fuck you” and drive off never to return. If I have to leave town or take a pay cut to find another job, so be it. My liberties and self-respect are worth more to me than my job is. I’d rather be poor and free than work for people like that.
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:49 pm
I work on one of the several Indian Reservation Casinos scattered across this country. Each of them is, in and of itself, a small federally recognized country. Kinda neat, actually. Now, this brings up two issues:
A: If I park “off property”, I’ve got about a mile and a half hike to make it in to work, through rural areas and Casino parking lots at 11:30 at night. In this area in the last two years, there have been drive by shootings, assaults, robberies, etc… Not exactly the kind of area I wanna wander across unarmed in the middle of the night.
B: As a sovereign nation, any laws passed on the state level are only enforceable on the Res if the tribal government says so. So far, the Res I work on is pretty much in lockstep with the state laws, inasmuch as they’re posted (legally) at all of the entrances to the casino and local businesses. The only exception (and my loophole) is the firing range.
Now, if there was a state law passed guaranteeing my right to keep a firearm in my vehicle, it would be unenforceable on casino property. The only way a law guaranteeing the right to store firearms in my parked car at work could be passed would be if it was passed on a federal level.
Not bloody likely.
March 25th, 2007 at 2:17 am
“”Sebastian Says:
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Man, what kind of people do you folks work for that they do crap like this? I can’t imagine how anyone justifies treating another person with such wanton condescension. I have to admit don’t get why anyone would want to put up with it. The day my employer brings drug sniffing dogs anywhere near my car is the day I tell them “fuck you” and drive off never to return. If I have to leave town or take a pay cut to find another job, so be it. My liberties and self-respect are worth more to me than my job is. I’d rather be poor and free than work for people like that.””
We just don’t have much choice in this area. This is a problem with PC employers that also have a tremendous influence with refferals in looking for a new job. We are in a rural area and already mid to poor and cannot afford to re-locate. I can’t move my FFL into the city limits for one thing as there are no zoning regulations out here. My other business is also located here and “location locked in”. Property values alone kill the thought of moving to another area. It is live with it for now and hope the new law passes and gives us some relief.
March 25th, 2007 at 2:22 am
Also she is a TXCHL instructor and our range is located in the country on our property. Too many things to move and too much expense.
March 26th, 2007 at 11:14 am
This won’t be a popular opinion here, but if they have the right to prohibit you from bringing object X onto their property (whatever “object X” might be), then I fail to see how they wouldn’t also have the right to prohibit you from bringing a car containing object X onto their property.
March 26th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
I guess I’m of the mindset that if they’re gonna tell me what I can or cannot have in my vehicle, they’re gonna either provide daily shuttle service or respect my privacy when it comes to the contents of my vehicle.
There are already too many instances where employers dictate their employees off-duty conduct. But when a company starts compromising my safety after I’ve left their sphere of influence (parking lot) and tells me that I need to be defenseless to support one of their feel-good policies, that’s bordering on criminal negligence.