My post on stormwater on KTB
Like many other local bloggers I will be blogging on KTB, the Knoxville Tennessee Blog. Today’s post is on stormwater and I break it down as simply as it can be broken down.
How long will taxpayers in Knox County allow developers to put in metal corrugated pipe and plastic pipe for stormwater? The good stuff is concrete pipe, it can last many, many decades. The cheap stuff can need replacement in 15 years.
Why should taxpayers and property owners have to pick up the tab to replace stormwater pipes in 15 years because of the poor stormwater ordinance from Knox County Commission?
Rikki Hall and Betty Bean have some fine columns this week you should read on the stormwater debate.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
By using the cheap stuff, elected officials will always have contracts to let to favored political campaign contributors. Those contributors will always, thus, have a reason to continue contributing.
Sealed bids are a joke with the right helpful leaks, extras, add-ons and follow-ons are almost always let without competitive bid to the initial successful bidder as a savings due to their familiarity with the project and their sometimes already presence at the site.
I would have thought as sharp as you are, that you would have seen this for the scam it is. Well, maybe not, now that I think about it. One either must have dealt with it, as I have done or be dishonest enough to think of it. Most of us do not fall into that category. I never took a bribe, but I was offered many when I had contracts to let. I sometimes found myself overruled by superiors who then accepted the bribe and ended up having to work with people I didn’t trust and who knew it and why.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
This brings up a question that I’ve been meaning to ask on this blog as I’d like to get a libertarian perspective….
San Francisco is currently undergoing an upgrade of its sewer and sewage systems. A big issue here is that there is lots of concrete, asphalt, buildings and other non-permeable surfaces. Most homes don’t have a front yard and have limited backyards. This means that most stormwater needs to be captured into the sewer system rather than get absorbed by the ground. This necessitates a larger sewer system which costs the city money.
However, one proposal that has been floated is that the city should have more green spaces. This would include mandating private property owners to have gardens and things like this. These actions would reduce the stress on the sewer system.
So my question is this..from a libertarian perspective, what is more intrusive…legislation that requires property owners to maintain permeable surfaces such as gardens or larger cost sewage systems?
April 20th, 2007 at 9:20 am
I’d say mandating your yard is more intrusive. But most libertarians aren’t fans of big expensive projects, either.
April 20th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
straightarrow brings up a good point. This idea of using the cheapest pipe is genius for the politicos.
First the developer that saves money by using the cheap pipe gives the politico huge campaign money and help, then the road builder that fixes the pipe 15 years later gives the politico huge money and help. It’s a double dip.
Planned obsolescence, it’s not just for GM.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
How do you figure that concrete is longer lasting than HDPE and metal? Plastic is pretty much going to be around longer than we will. Structural weakness of plastic pipe can be overcome by proper backfilling, and as far as metal goes, they do make different coatings (plastic, asphalt and aluminum) that extend their service life. I guess RCP is good if the laborers installing them are of low-quality. We use plastic pipe in our area, and I don’t see structural failures. Even our metal culverts last 20+ years.
It seems to be a rather silly item when complaining about the state of stormwater regulation. I’d focus on measures that have a more direct impact on improving water quality, like retaining storm events and releasing them over an extended period of time, or increasing the buffer sizes from 25′ of undisturbed land to 50′.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
I guess RCP is good if the laborers installing them are of low-quality.
You are correct. That is a big part of the issue. Installation is everything. It is like stucco for houses. Installed correctly it is fine. Install it just a little off and you can have a disaster.
You also have a good point about the buffer size.
Knox County has major problems from incorrectly installed stormwater piping. The code department does not have enough manpower to do the inspections. Concrete pipe is the least common denominator. It cost more on the front end but it saves the taxpayers money.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Manish,
Another solution is to separate the sanitary sewage from the stormwater runoff. There is only so much space available for grass, you’re probably still going to have the majority of surfaces being impervious. I don’t think people would appreciate having thousands of gallons of runoff flooding their park whenever it rains, and waiting a day or two to have it all soak into the ground.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
re: inspections
They could do what we do up here, and require that a licensed engineer sign off that the work was completed in accordance with the design plans. That way, you get the engineers more intimately involved in the project. When the pipe fails, it’s the engineer’s ass, and you’re more likely to track him down than the developer who cashed in his chips and left the state/country.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
They could do what we do up here, and require that a licensed engineer sign off that the work was completed in accordance with the design plans.
Works for me but it may be too much of a burden for the developers. We don’t have mafia down here because the developers got here first. In actuality the developers are the government.