The Mrs. asks a question
The other day, I mentioned to the Mrs. one of the new fuel efficiency vehicles. It’s a passing interest of mine. I figure in the next year or two, I’ll have the itch for a new ride. And I’m pretty sure the smart thing to do with our next vehicle purchases is to get something that has increased fuel economy. Right now, I have flex fuel vehicle. But the only place that sells E85 is Pilot Oil and I don’t shop there because Bill Haslam is a member of Mayors Against Guns. Anyhoo, that leaves the various hybrids, fuel cells, battery powered, and what not vehicles. I mentioned one to the Mrs. and she asks:
Why are those vehicles always so ugly?
Good question. They are all atrocious looking. That new Jeep concept is horrid. The Prius looks cheap. A few companies are getting it and just making existing body styles hybrid. I told the Mrs. I thought it was because they wanted them to look futuristic. But, apparently, the future is ugly.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:16 am
Actually, I believe the initial results when Toyota offered a hybrid standard car body and the Prius found that people wanted the different and funky body style to make a public declaration to the world that they were making a lifestyle change. I think the hybrid versions of other cars didn’t sell as well initially, but the Prius had a multi-month waiting line. (I know one colleague who waited 8 months to get one.)
So basically, it’s because some people aren’t secure enough in actually reducing their fuel demands, they have to scream it to the world with the distinct design.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:18 am
It’s the modern equivalent of wearing a hair shirt, or walking through public spaces self-flagellating. They’re ugly so that they SCREAM “I’m more pious than you are! I CARE about the environment and ‘sustainability’ and YOU DON’T!”
How many Priuses (Prii?) have you seen with “Kerry/Edwards” or “Re-elect Al Gore” bumper stickers? In Tucson, it’s a LOT.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:26 am
My advisor has the Toyota Highlander Hybrid. Looks pretty darn good. Gets unbelievable mileage.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Kevin, are you saying people get it for the smug?
March 5th, 2008 at 11:28 am
I believe South Park defined it best. It is Smug. What good is it being self-righteous if no one knows. Now that hybrids have proven some value, i.e., they have reasonable power and save gas money, good looking versions will start coming out in normal body styles.
Don’t tell the Prius owners about the smug, they’ll deny it and try to explain the ugly body style on aerodynamics. My Miata is aerodynamic and beautiful, a Prius is just ugly. But it does have the fishbowl affect so everyone can see you’re a wonderful person.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
So basically, it’s because some people aren’t secure enough in actually reducing their fuel demands, they have to scream it to the world with the distinct design.
So true.
In fact there is a video:
March 5th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
I thought they came with the Kerry/Edwards stickers pre-attached?? No?
March 5th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
My Miata is aerodynamic and beautiful, a Prius is just ugly.
I think the Prius is more aerodynamic than your Miata. The shape they chose for the Prius is excellent from an aerodynamic point of view.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
I used to have a bumper sticker that said “My SUV can beat up your Prius”
On my 8mgpg lifted Bronco
March 5th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
I bought an ’08 Prius a few months ago. I miss my truck but so far it’s been a decent ride and 2/3rds of my payment is what I save in gas.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
I’d rather have a car with a real engine.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I’m in the market for a ’04 or later Prius. I keep hoping that the dang guvmint will quit letting all the Prius-people ride by themselves in the HOV-3 lanes around here. Despite all the smug going around, the real reason that people buy these things around the DC metro area is because they don’t have to bother to round up 2 extra people going the same way as themselves.
Once the incentive for a fast ride evaporates, I expect the bottom to fall out of the smug market. The 04 and later Prius is quite hackable, and the battery pack is made of standard AA NiMH, so it ought to be rebuildable by someone who knows what end of a soldering iron to hold. Bonus, Toyota builds all their engines without the stealth self-destruct feature every other automaker does – meaning, if the timing belt happens to break, you don’t need a rebuilt head or replacement piston.
Besides, I need something to replace my much battered Camry, (and I’ve had another hit-and-run since then).
March 5th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Bitter gets it pretty much right. The cars need to look different to satisfy the attention whore needs of the owners. It isn’t really about making a difference, it’s about being seen to care about making a difference – it’s the standard libtard approach to everything really…
When you look at the increased initial costs (keep in mind that initial cost is a good indicator of the resources that went into it’s production), none of the current crop of green vehicles make much sense from an economic standpoint – you’re lucky to break even over the life of the car. Battery technology from a natural resource perspective (nickel mining), or environmental perspective(acids and heavy metals) are none too green. In most areas, the only practical reason to own one is all about circumventing the HOV restrictions.
If you really want to save the environment, or your own hard earned cash, buy a small, light, fuel efficient used (nothing more production efficient than a car that already exists) car, and keep the engine and exhaust in proper running order. If you must buy new, then a small diesel from VW (or someone else) is a better real-world bet than any of the other options.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
the only practical reason to own one is all about circumventing the HOV restrictions
Of course, the irony at least here in the DC area is that by riding in the HOV lanes, they aren’t using the cars in a way that’s actually benefiting from the increased miles per gallon. They would be better off stuck in traffic with me in the main lines.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Of course, the irony at least here in the DC area is that by riding in the HOV lanes, they aren’t using the cars in a way that’s actually benefiting from the increased miles per gallon. They would be better off stuck in traffic with me in the main lines.
Stop, logic hurts…
March 5th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Yep, it really is the HOV thingy around here. What? you didn’t her that from the press? Nor treehugger? I’m not surprised.
The newer hybrids also aren’t always that more fuel effeciant The big appeal for say a hybrid pick-up, in addition to the HOV thingy, is that they can build them with some 110v. AC plugs. Great for construction workers. Also handy for rolling blackouts. Yes, California, land of rolling blackouts, has draconian restrictions on the emissions of backup generators. Enter the “hybrid loophole”. Heh.
Remember kids, always hate hypocrites.
Again, let the original buyer pay the “green” premium, and buy used.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Remember kids, always hate hypocrites.
10-4, I hear that.
What to see some real MPG?
And they handle like a sports car. No batteries to bury, and no SMUG.
I think I will get one just to blow the doors off the hippie mobiles.
Remember kids, hippies are not your friends.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
>Why are those vehicles always so ugly?
My hybrid (a Mercury Mariner) looks exactly like the fuel-only version of the same vehicle. But then I’m apparently one of the few people who bought a hybrid purely to save money.
Most hybrid owners aren’t interested in saving money or the environment; they do it to assert their moral superiority over the people around them. If that’s your main goal, owning a hyrbid is useless unless everyone KNOWS it’s a hybrid.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I drive an 06 Ford Escape with the 6 cylinder 200 HP engine, A4WD. It gets 26 mpg on the highway, and in red/grey looks great. Merc and Ford make a hybrid (actually its a Mazda drivetrain, as is mine).
To look politically correct, and to amaze people whom I leave in the dust at the light, I have purchased from Ebay a genunine Ford badge that says “hybrid” and have affixed same next to the V6 badge.
Consarn the consternation it causes.
Al Czervic
Editor
The Catskill Commentator
http://www.commentator.vze.com
March 5th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
I asked the same thing when we were looking at the Prius. After a year, I do love my Prius. 50 mpg most of the time. Have had it up to around 58 mpg and down to oh so bad 48 mpg.
Wanted a hatchback so the Honda Civic and Camry were not an option. Wanted excellent gas mileage so the Toyota Highlander Hybrid was out. Plus the Highlander is quite expensive.
Now want either a Ford Escape hybrid or the Mercury Mariner hybrid as a second car for more people/cargo. So far can’t find one in East Tennessee. There are very few in the South East U.S.
Oh, and liberal bumper stickers are not necessary on the Prius, it is assumed.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
VW Jetta diesel coupe or wagon, 45 mpg (auto) and 50 mpg (stick).
VW Passat diesel for a little more room.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
BTW, the VW diesels LOVE interstate speeds of 80 mph and get just as good fuel mileage at that speed. Try that with a hybrid. Hybrid fuel mileage suffers at interstate speeds.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Kevin, are you saying people get it for the smug?
As in most things, many are, but not all.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Since no one else mentioned it……
You are most likely making a bad investment if you buy a Hybrid. They’re usually several thousand $$$ above the price of a comparable non-hybrid, so over the life of the car, say 100-150K miles you’re not going to recoup that extra money you spent via fuel savings.
Besides, you can get damn good gas mileage in your basic Toyota Corolla / Honda Civic as long as you don’t have a lead foot.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
I hate the Germans, but look at the Jetta or BMW diesels. Great mileage and low emissions esp w/ the super low sulfur fuels. Also the engine will outlast the everything on the road today.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
mike, I had gone to do research 😀
The hybrid mariner is, according to mercury.com, about $6000 more than the 4cy and gets 7mpg better. At $3/gal, you have to drive it 151000 miles before you’ve ‘saved’ any money. At $4, its 116000.
Of course, that doesn’t include taxes, insurance, and finance charges incurred because of the larger price tag.
If you’re buying a car to save money on gas, buy an $800 dodge neon. its what I did.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
>The hybrid mariner is, according to mercury.com, about $6000 more than
>the 4cy and gets 7mpg better. At $3/gal, you have to drive it 151000 miles
>before you’ve ’saved’ any money. At $4, its 116000.
Two quibbles:
1.) The hybrid comes with all the bells and whistles, so you can’t compare it to the base model of the fuel-only version. If you compare it to a similarly equipped fuel-only verson, the price difference is only $3000
2.) You’re also forgetting the close to $2,000 federal income tax rebate you get for the mariner hybrid
March 5th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
“You are most likely making a bad investment if you buy a Hybrid. They’re usually several thousand $$$ above the price of a comparable non-hybrid, so over the life of the car, say 100-150K miles you’re not going to recoup that extra money you spent via fuel savings.”
If you are buying any other car than a Bugatti as an “investment,” you are crazy. I’ve got some ARM loans to sell. Are you interested in those as well?
March 5th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
If people really cared about mileage over image, the Toyota Echo would still be on the market.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
metulj, I thought for sure you would get a hard on with the Fiat 500. What gives?
March 5th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Remember, you are the one who needs Viagra.
I had a Cinquecento when I lived in Rome for a year. Great car. It blew up coming back from Ancona. We put a sign in the window that said, “Threw a rod. You can have it” and hitched back to our place.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:00 am
It blew up coming back from Ancona.
Wind it up too much?
March 6th, 2008 at 10:00 am
As the Mrs. noted, there are several hybrids that are the same as the standard versions, including Honda Civic (pretty nice if you don’t need the hatchback), Toyota Camry, Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner, Toyota Highlander.
The Prius and Civic are the MPG kings, though, and the others are only marginally better than their standard versions. And yes, the Prius is ugly, but it grows on you plus it can haul a lot of junk.
(GM has a couple of new ones, too, but they mostly aren’t available and don’t get much better mileage than the regular versions and worse mileage than some other vehicles in their lineup.)
As for the “smug”, I’m always surprised that conservative types aren’t interested in saving money. It sure is nice driving by gas stations advertising $3.10 gas and watching the MPG meter show 52MPG.
I don’t know how much more the Prius cost than the regular version because there isn’t one, but it’s similar in price to a similarly equipped Camry, and it’s the least expensive car we’ve bought in over 15 years.
Oh, and thanks to all you taxpayers for the tax credit I’m getting this year. It’s much appreciated.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Yeah, I noted standard versions too. The issue with them seems to be they’re really not that fuel efficient when compared to the Prius, etc. GM is introducing hybrid Yukons and Silverados next year but I can’t imagine they get gas mileage that is that great since they’re still big 8 cylinders. The new jeep concept is an excellent idea. IIRC, it is battery powered for up to 110 miles (most commutes) and can kick in gas for longer trips. Sadly, it’s a two seater and looks like a dog’s butt.
The uncle clan needs a vehicle that seats four and, since my convertible days are done, we also like having a truck. I kinda wish honda would come out with a fuel efficient ridgeline.
the “smug” is a south park reference.
And it’s not really about the money. It’s about doing my part to get the US less dependent on oil, really.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:50 am
You should consider the Highlander. We looked at one (family of 5) and it was plenty roomy. Very expensive though. VERY. I was surprised at the bottom-end power on it. I’ve said it elsewhere: If GM or Ford would say “Gas only engines will be premium options on all of our models starting in 2013”, I’d buy Ford at 5.96 a share. But they won’t. They don’t have the balls. This isn’t about engineering smarts, it’s about balls. They are afraid the stock holders will punish them. Notice to Ford especially, you’ve been punished. Nothing to lose. The worse thing that could happen is that Ford gets bought up by some Chinese conglomerate, which will happen anyway.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Yeay, insty has one of the hybrids. I casually checked it out. And my inlaws have the non hybrid highlander. They’re no more pricey than my current ride or the wife’s Pilot (which we picked over the highlander and the Volvo XC90 due to Consumer Reports).
March 6th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Glad to hear others are boycotting Pilot over Bill’s association with Mayor Bloomberg.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Anything with grunt is going to come with a hefty price tag. It’s those CAFE standards that make a manufacture sell a bunch of econo-boxes for every land cruising yacht
If you’re willing to wade through a pretty long post, this does a pretty good job of explaining at least part of the appeal of SUVs.
Teaser quote:
March 6th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Does nobody here care about the claim that Bill Haslam is a member of Mayors Against Guns? I have heard this, but I have also heard it denighed.
Can anyone positively confirm it? What I heard, from a strong source, was that he unwittingly joined at a Mayors meeting some time back, but subsequently resigned. I sure hope so.
I get 26 MPG highway on my 2000 de Ville.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Does nobody here care about the claim that Bill Haslam is a member of Mayors Against Guns?
It is not a claim. It is a fact. Haslam has unwittingly remained a member.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
King, go here and hover your mouse over tennessee.
Regarding caring about it, I’m the guy that broke the story.
March 6th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Probably not that nice, though, if you did a full calculation of how much more you had to pay for the hybrid in the first place.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
>The Prius and Civic are the MPG kings, though, and the others are only
>marginally better than their standard versions.
Thanks to diminishing returns, they only have to be marginally better. If I average driving 250 miles a week, increasing the fuel efficiency of my Mariner from 20 to 25mpg saves as much gas as increasing the fuel efficiency of a Civic from 35mpg to 55mpg