Gun ownership and gun laws
In Switzerland, where everybody gets government issued rifles and ammo.
22 Responses to “Gun ownership and gun laws”
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December 6th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
My comment to filterman at the site: “filterman, I don’t believe your postulation is possible. You claim that the U.S. has a higher per capita gun possession rate than Switzerland. Are you seriously saying that we exceed 100% gun possession per capita, because that is what the Swiss have.
We don’t even have 50% here. Less than one in two U.S. males possesses firearms. We may have more guns due to multiple possession by individuals and our much larger population, but gun possession itself is less than 25% per capita here. I don’t know how many guns you can use at a time but most people can only effectively use one at a time. Therefore, whatever number are left in the locker by the few of us who have them are irrelevant. What is relevant, is how many people own them, not how many each of them own.”
December 6th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Sorry straightarrow, but unless you can show that every person in switzerland(man, woman & child) has a firearm than they DON’T have 100% gun possesion per capita. Remember only the men are required to keep firearms so they only have about ~51-52% rate(1.08males/1female)
December 7th, 2009 at 2:01 am
Kinda scary how many of the comments there are pro-mandatory military service.
December 7th, 2009 at 2:58 am
The video in your link is a great answer to the question, “Why isn’t Switzerland on this list?”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#By_country
Thanks for posting this.
December 7th, 2009 at 8:40 am
That’s Marc Heim, multiple Gunsite graduate and hunting buddy of Jeff Cooper.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:00 am
@Azul,
Why?
December 7th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Ever been to Switzerland? I got fined 55SF for putting a plastic bottle in the wrong bin at a train station. How was this discovered? A woman saw me do it and reported me to the police officer with the MP5 and Malinois whose job it seems was to take rat fink reports from the populace on recycling errors.
Question: Can you tote your issued rifle around?
December 7th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Don’t think you can. Gee, you mean a semi-direct democracy becomes a nanny state of tattletales? Who knew?
For the record, I would oppose compulsory gun ownership.
December 7th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Nanny state: Yawn. Nobody wants the state until they do.
If guns make a polite society (or engender it), why not have compelled ownership? Wrong people would get guns? Wrong guns would get compelled?
December 7th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Ok Steve A, but I limited the comparison to U.S. males, so the comparison is still valid. Like to like. 100% male gun possession in Switzerland, way less than 25% gun possession by males in the U.S. What about that did you find hard to understand?
December 7th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Yawn, indeed.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Straightarrow, you are comparing apples to oranges. 50% of 8 million residents = 4 million gunowners as opposed to 25%(most sources place the number closer to 40% but i’ll use yours) of 300 million = 75 million gunowners(120 million with the 40%). Just doesn’t compare. Still not 100% in switzerland as almost 1.5 million are under 16 or over 50(at which point they are not required to keep the firearm at home & with it being government issued it may be taken back).
FYI all population facts are taken from nationmaster.com & the cia world book
December 7th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Ok, I see your problem. You don’t understand the definition of “per capita”. Sheesh, look it up.
Oh, and I suppose we have no children or oldsters who don’t possess firearms.
December 7th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
@jdstuf
Individual sovereignty.
Mandatory military or civil service operates under the same premise as mandatory health insurance, income taxes, mandatory sterilizations/ abortions, etc. This premise being that the collective is of greater importance than the individual; and that the collective has a claim of ownership on me and mine and you and yours.
This kind of thinking has absolutely no place in a free society.
December 7th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Straightarrow learn to read your own posts. You stated in your first post “Are you seriously saying that we exceed 100% gun possession per capita, because that is what the Swiss have.” No where is it even hinted at that there are at least 1 gun/person in the country of switzerland, whereas, in the us, there are probably at least as many if not more firearms than people. You really need to learn a little before opening your mouth to criticize someone else.
I’m done with you.
December 7th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Of course you are, you don’t know what you’re saying and I pointed it out. All you can do is run. I explained it once as to why the comparison was valid, which you ignored and tried to change the topic to total number of guns in each society. I wouldn’t let you do that. So run away.
December 8th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Geez, how stupid can you be? You stated that the swiss have 100% gun possession per capita. That is at least 1 gun per person in the country. You have totally failed to prove that & the simple fact is that the US is & always will be closer to that. You are now trying to say that that isn’t what you said when it is easily verified at the top of the page that it is EXACTLY what you said. Please act your age.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Are you seriously saying that we exceed 100% gun possession per capita, because that is what the Swiss have.
We don’t even have 50% here. Less than one in two U.S. males possesses firearms. We may have more guns due to multiple possession by individuals and our much larger population, but gun possession itself is less than 25% per capita here. I don’t know how many guns you can use at a time but most people can only effectively use one at a time. Therefore, whatever number are left in the locker by the few of us who have them are irrelevant. What is relevant, is how many people own them, not how many each of them own.”
tThis is what I said above, did you miss the part where it was limited in the second paragraph to males? As is applicable to the discussion.
Did you miss the part about how many guns can be used at a time and the irrelevance of the others? Did you miss the part of the originally referenced item wherein the interviewee had several guns himself as they became his private property upon his forebears removal from the active roles of militia? that alone speaks to the sleight of hand you are trying to pull.
Did you not consider that many of the guns possessed here are in the hands of women and therefore I didn’t count them, though there could be some credible reason for doing so, since all the equal rights legislation, meaning that they may at some future point be considered as citizen militia as provided for in USC 10?
In Switzerland every male has a gun, by law. That has been true for many generations there. The firearms are kept and become personal property after their militia service is at an end. Allowing for the male population being approximately half of the overall population and for the compulsory militia membership having been a part of Swiss law for at least three or more generations, that necessarily means that each household has as personal property three to four firearms minimum and at least one government owned and issued firearm at present for all those still in the militia. That would certainly make it reasonable to believe that they approach 100% firearms possession.
It certainly makes it true among their male population which was the focus of my comment, though you were too dim to understand it. After the issued firearm becomes personal property of the Swiss former militia member, it is reasonable to assume that family, wives, children have at least constructive possession of these firearms if not outright possession of them. Think widows and orphans here,as well as those who were presented them as gifts from the male militia former member who has several from previous generations of his family and still has his modern government issued firearm.
Further you keep trying to conflate total number of firearms to the issue, which as you know is not the basis of my previous comments. You still ignore the ratio (per capita) possession of firearms by individuals. Not how many they own, but how many own them. The Swiss most assuredly beat us on that count.
Try to get someone to explain to you and help you with the words and phrases you don’t understand.
December 11th, 2009 at 12:07 am
Okay straightarrow, once again you show your ignorance. No where have you shown that the swiss have 100% gun possession per capita(which means that every single person possesses a firearm). You are trying to prove something that just isn’t true.
Get over yourself.
At least 40% of the HOUSEHOLDS in america own firearms. Notice that that isn’t just males but households. As the average household is 2.6 people(thats 1 dad, 1 mom & .6 kid(poor half a kid:( )) that means that at least 40% of our TOTAL population has firearms, which is BTW higher than that of the swiss.
Please learn some basic math.
December 11th, 2009 at 12:41 am
SteveA, you must attack me personally because you are simply full of shit. I have shown you more than once where you are wrong and you just call me names and repeat the shit I have already shown to be wrong.
The ignorance my friend is yours. Unfortunately it is self-induced and willful. That is fine with me. If you wish to be full of shit go right ahead. I don’t care.
You know you are wrong, and I know you are wrong. If that were not true you would not keep trying to move the topic to another issue or reinterpret what I said to bolster your argument.
Whereas, I have not had to resort to such cheap tricks with what you said.
But hey, you stick with it. Well, that’s not really encouragement, because you really have no choice. There are just too many words of which you do not know the definition, like “per capita”. learn some basic English, then we’ll talk about math.
December 11th, 2009 at 2:00 am
Wow. What a stupid thing to fight over.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Yep, i fell into the old trap of feeding a troll. I should have known better.