NFRTR Troubles
It’s a topic I’ve addressed a few times. But David notes three suppressors not in the database but there were approved forms and tax stamps.
And remember institutionalized perjury is the norm for ATF with respect to the database.:
when we testify in court, we testify that the database is 100 percent accurate. That’s what we testify to, and we will always testify to that. As you probably well know, that may not be 100 percent true . . . When I first came in a year ago, our error rate was between 49 and 50 percent, so you can imagine what the accuracy of the NFRTR could be, if your error rate’s 49 to 50 percent
when I first came in a year ago, our error rate was between 49 and 50 percent, so you can imagine what the accuracy of the NFRTR could be, if your error rate’s 49 to 50 percent. The error rate now is down to below 8 percent, and that’s total. That’s common errors and critical errors.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:42 am
This reminds me of a Ziggy cartoon from a long time ago. It shows Ziggy reading a letter and the contents of the letter, shown in a bubble, are: “Dear Mr. Ziggy. This is a letter from the IRS to inform you that we have lost your records. If we do not find them within 30 days, you will be liable for a $5000 fine and/or 3 years in Jail.”
January 13th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
The NFRTR is well known in the industry to be full of mistakes, errors, and omissions.
There are well known events of NFA examiners (pre move NFA Branch to WV, back when it was in DC) who shredded NFA forms to “catch up” on backlogged work.
There was Lucretia Fountain. (If you had her as your examiner, you know what I mean)
There are stories of ATF examiners coming to a licensee (01/C3, 07/C2) to “verify” info in the NFRTR and simply copying (manually or by copier) info on Forms 1, 3, and 4.
And, the bitch is that the people that are aware of the problems (licensees) need NFA Branch’s help to stay in business. Fall on NFA Branch’s bad side and form can take longer…. Hate for that to happen.
Signed,
Former member of NFA-as-work community, current member of NFA-as-private-owner community.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Sorta OT, a week or so ago I mentioned in VA you can pay $15 and get a license to saw off a shotgun.
I was told that wasn’t true, it is. (PDF warning).
That link is to an ATF form for making your own sawed off shotgun, it’s legal in VA. I wouldn’t know about other states, the form says if it’s illegal there your petition will be denied,I would bet it’s not legal to do so in say, NJ or NY but it is totally legal in VA.
Apparently I was wrong about the amount, it’s not $15, but it’s still legal.
And before you tell me I’m wrong again, I’ll helpfully highlight the relevant “definition”
Quote
“c. Firearm. The term “firearm” means: (1) a shotgun have a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel of less than 18 inches in length”
Sorry for the ot comment, but I didn’t want to put this into a week old link.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
i imagine the feds would not approve. you can make one if you pay the $200 tax and go through the nfa process.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
RE #3 and #4.
We need to make a clear distinction between “make” and “transfer”. Two different things.
You can make something that looks exactly like a “sawed off shotgun” (Short Barreled Shotgun in NFA terms) but is considered something else.
The key is to get a receiver that has not had a rifle stock attached.
Take the Serbu SuperShorty for example. He gets pistol gripped Mossberg receivers, cuts down the barrel, and they are classified as an AOW (Any Other Weapon). The transfer tax on AOWs is $5.
The SuperShorty is actually considered a smooth bored pistol as the receiver has never had a long buttstock and never had a rifled barrel.
Mark Serbu doesn’t pay a ‘making tax’ because he’s a 07/C2 (07 FFL, Class 2 SOT, tax exempt manuf of NFA items). Were a non 07/C2 (even an 01 FFL) to make an AOW the making tax would be $200.
The tax to *transfer* an AOW is $5, all other NFA items it’s $200.
So, it wouldn’t be cost effective to make your own AOW unless your state prohibits Short Shotguns but is mute/allows AOWs.
But, the $5 transfer would make sense.
And, shooting trap with a SuperShorty is quite a challenge. đŸ™‚
January 13th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Veeshir,
The Form 1 is not a license. It’s a registration document and tax payment receipt, from the federal government.
As I said earlier, the only hoops to jump through to own short shotguns in Virginia are federal. Jump through them and the state doesn’t give a damn what you do.
On the NFRTR, GI, GO. There’s a chance anything registered between 1968 and, oh, about 2004 could have problems. Older registrations may as well, since they were kept in a card file before computers came into use, though they actually seem to have relatively few issues in my experience.
A big problem has been people not registering stuff properly – listing the wrong model, caliber, serial number, even type of firearm. Compound that with a staff that just didn’t give a damn (in addition to not knowing anything about guns), and you get issues like we have been dealing with for a couple decades now.
The solution is a blanket amnesty, where all currently registered firearms are re-registered, along with everything that isn’t. While there’s support at the rank and file level in ATF for that, there is none at the political appointee level, where the decisions actually get made.
January 13th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
#6: Three things.
Thing 1: you are correct, the Form 1 (and the other NFA forms) are considered ‘tax payer info’ and as such are *supposed* to be as hard to obtain as your tax return. Operative word here is *supposed*.
Thing 2: the NFRTR was computerized before 2004. They took fax submittals of F2’s (form 2, what a NFA manufacturer submits to *notify* NFA Branch that something got made) and entered them into the NFRTR database. That was a huge source of backlog AND error.
Thing 3: once the error is in the system, it’s a bitch to get corrected. I know of licensees who fixed a mistake only to have it show up two or three inspections later. “But the printout shows you have a ‘Clot M16’ yet you own a ‘Colt M16’ you are in violation”. Obviously, not that bad, but close.
Bonus: Thing 4: The M2 30 Carbine that, over the course of many transfers, turned into a M2 (as in Ma Deuce). On paper. Or so the story goes.
For the record, I own neither flavor of M2. but I do own some M2 ball (.30-06 guvmint issue stuff) from the CMP.
January 14th, 2010 at 11:36 am
My original point was that you can have a sawed off shotgun in VA.
That was my only point and I was right but I was way off on price. I obviously remembered it wrong.
Thank you.