On car shopping
or Internet help me buy a car
Me and the Mrs. test drove the Infiniti G37 this past weekend. I dig it. In fact, I must have it. It’s that cool. Peppy, comfy, and cool looking. I’ve been doing my research and the search engine gods have noticed because everywhere I look on the internet there is a G37. They’re everywhere. Shiny and I click. Oh, how they taunt me.
Anyhoo, been chatting with the sales guy and there are several never owned 2009s they’ve got in stock (only miles on the cars are test drive miles). He gives me this quote, 2009 Journey with the premium package comes in at $32K at 3.9% for 72 months (580/mo); or $34K at 1.9% for 60 months to own (650/mo). Mind you, these are his offers and I have yet to tell him whether I am leasing, buying, paying cash, trading cattle, how much I want to spend, what payment I want or whatever. I’ve given him no guidelines at all. Hint: not paying cash this time but will put up enough cash to get the payment down.
So, car folks, what offer should I make? What do you think their bottom dollar is? Cash price? Finance Price?
Or, since they have quite a few 2009s on the lot, should I wait and see if they have them in the summer. Not in a giant rush, really. But do want a good deal.
I suck at buying cars.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
I’m not much help, but I do love the G37. Nice choice.
February 11th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
i would offer $30k and see what happens. i wouldn’t specify how you’re paying until you agree on that price…and if they won’t budge, walk. they need you a LOT more than you need them.
February 11th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Whatever offer you decide to make, wait until the last day of the month to make it. The salesman might be just one car short of making his quota and keeping his job!
February 11th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Why would it cost $2,000 to buy a car with a shorter payoff time. At the very least I would never take a 72 month loan, 60 is the max less is better but if you can’t afford it 60 is ok. If you take the 72 you are so far underwater on the car for so long you probably need GAP coverage on your insurance. I don’t get why they would sell you the car for $2,000 cheaper if you take the longer loan. I would demand the bottom price at the shorter payment term at the least. If they are willing to sell at 32k, then they are willing to sell at 32k end of story, regardless of how you are paying. If they aren’t let them keep the car. The buyer really has the power in this car market. Also work via email and contact the nearest 10-15 dealers over email. Get their bottom prices and tell them whomever sells it cheapest you will buy from. Make these guys compete with the 10-15 closest dealers around you. Someone will get desperate for the sale and blink.
February 11th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
Edmunds tells me a 2010 G37 Journey sedan with a premium package but not sport package has a factory invoice for $34,559. He’s probably getting an incentive of at least $3,500 from Nissan to move a remaining 2009 (see link). The price shouldn’t vary with financing… when he’s doing that he’s telling you there’s more room to maneuver.
Given the above, his bottom line cost is around $31,000 +/-. Negotiate from there, it’s not hard to get $500 over invoice less incentives, and around here, $1,000 over invoice less incentives is no-brainer.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/infiniti/g37/101115174/incentives.html
February 11th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
It’s worth the $15 or so that consumer reports charges to get their assessment of exactly what the dealer’s cost is on the car, what their incentives are, etc. Their suggestions for negotiation are also worthwhile.
Good you’re going for the Infiniti rather than the Volvo. With the Volvo we used to have every repair started at $1K.
February 11th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Er, is that just a Nissan 350 Z for fancy lads? Does it come with a stick shift? If you can’t get it with a manual transmission I’d go the Nissan route. IF you were really tough, you’d get a GT-S.
February 11th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
no. it’s based on the skyline. not really a similar nissan version, i don’t think.
February 11th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
I’m a big fan of the 100% down and 0 payments of $0 for 0 months plan, myself. But I tend to buy more modest cars.
Sorry, I’m no help!
February 11th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
Get a horse. In other words, a car that gets you where you want to go and four more people besides. Nissan Altima?
Spend the extra money on something else. Ten dollar horse and a forty dollar saddle? (An old song I heard once.)
February 11th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
For a 2009, knock $5000 off that price. They will be selling 2011 cars in 3 months. When you go to sell it used, you’ll have lost 2 years of value off the car.
$32k is a $2500 above ‘fair’ price. They have at least $5000 baked into that offer in profit (depending on how far they transported it, and what type of financing they got from the manufacturer). They are losing money monthly, keeping that car on the lot. The salesman will piss blood, since he won’t get much of a commission (maybe $100 or so), but the dealership will be happy to sell.
PS – go to your local library or bookstore, and see if they have a copy of “Don’t get taken every time” (http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Get-Taken-Every-Time/dp/0143038885 )
February 11th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
Two things to say:
If the price changes based on the financing, the dealer is getting kickbacks or playing some other game. Find a different dealer.
A bit of advice my grandfather once shared with me: if you can’t pay off the car by the time the warranty is over, you can’t afford the car. (70 months!?!?!? )
February 11th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
I can afford the car. Those are just the out of the blue offers the guy made.
February 11th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
So I take it that the Ford Earthfucker isn’t an option?
February 11th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
http://www.youtube.com/daveramsey#p/a/745CE46CA336AED6/0/iIgLyl66QxQ
February 11th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
I would check their online sales department for a quote on the same car. Since online sales is a different guy, they will give you a different price and it is generally less than what the guys working on the lot will offer you. Also, check prices/features on the CarMax website for compareable, non-haggle prices. Here in my area, there are two 2009 G37s, one with 8k miles and is 2 door 4WD with nav system and premium sound, etc for $37k & the 4 door 2WD has 14k miles is $28k
February 11th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
1. Use Edmunds.com
2. Decide a price and stick to your guns!
3. If they are stuck on price ask for free extras, add-ons, touch up paint, extended warranty, trunk protector, etc.
4. Be MEAN! The salesman is not your friend. Be civil, but ruthlessly protect your interests, Don’t feel bad by directly negotiating w/ the sales manager and if you don’t like the deal, walk out. Even if you have been there for hours feel free to walk out without regret.
5. Try letting your wife negotiate. I don’t know how she does it, but my wife can turn a salesman to jelly without breaking a sweat. She knows what she wants a demands it.
6. If/when you buy, stop looking if you made a good deal. No matter how well you did, you still feel like you left something on the table, it will drive you nuts.
If you use the advice of getting 15 – 20 bids, open a gmail/hotmal/yahoo account for it. I’m still getting price updates for a car I bought two years ago.
February 11th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
Yeah, definitely check out what Edmunds has to say about current incentives and rebates etc. It IS possible that the total price varies with interest rate: there have been recent Infiniti offers where you can take either a $1500 cash incentive OR a low APR, but not both. Also, check out the Edmunds forums for the G37 – there’s a ‘prices paid’ thread on there with plenty of examples to help you out. One of the regular posters is actually a sales rep for an Infiniti dealer and he’ll happily share the kinds of deals customers are getting.
Good choice of car, btw. I just ordered a 2010 for myself 🙂
bm~
February 11th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
I used to sell cars.
First, listen to those above to find out the price.
Here’s how I buy a car.
First, I haggle price.
I make sure I’m haggling an “out the door” price.
I tell them, “I don’t care if you have a processing fee, a delivery fee, a restocking inventory fee or whatever other fee you come up with, we’re negotiating all fees right now. You will not add any fees after we’re done“.
They say, “We have to charge those fees.”
I say, “I don’t care, we’re adding them right now, not after we’ve agreed on a price. I’m negotiating an out the door price.”
Then, after you beat up on the salesman and the manager as much as possible, say okay and head into Finance
I used the dealer to finance when I bought my last two new cars, that’s how the next part works.
Then, you go to F&I (financing), when they tell you how much a month, laugh. Seriously, it unnerves them.
Say, “That’s ridiculous.”
Then, you negotiate the payment.
If they won’t negotiate, you’re as low as you can get.
Watch out for my personal favorite F&I deal, they’ll show you your payments at 20% interest, then add in a $1,200 extended warranty and reduce interest to 5% (without telling you about the interest rate change) and your payment only goes up $2/month!
It’s funny how many people never realized that they were told they were getting a $1,200 warranty for only 60 payments X $2.
When I sold cars, I had very good customer satisfaction (90%+) so my customers were mellow going into finance. It always pissed me off that I got beat up for 2 hours and sent them into finance all relaxed where they got bent over a barrel with no lube.
After you’ve bought your car, don’t look into price anymore. All you can do is piss yourself off if you didn’t get the best deal you could have.
If you feel bad about being a jerk to a car salesman, let me tell you a story.
I sold used cars at a Honda dealer.
I was walking by the new car sales desk where a fairly new salesman, the General Manager (head of the whole dealership) and the General Sales Manager (head of new car sales) were talking.
The newby salesman said, “They’re my friends, I can’t fuck them like that.”
The GM said, “Buddy, if you can’t fuck your friends, who can you fuck?”
I cheered, the GM thought I was being serious.
And that’s why I got out of the business, you have work with scumbags, work for scumbags, be called a scumbag by most of the people you deal with and you have to, at least on occasion, be a scumbag to make any money.
February 11th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Just to put it in perspective, my mortgage payment is $590/mo, which includes insurance and taxes.
Yeah, it’s only for 5 years instead of 30, and it’s a small house, but it’s still a house payment for a car.
February 11th, 2010 at 7:58 pm
Car sales is such an odd duck. I still don’t understand the whole haggle on price thing. I sell rifle parts, and everywhere in the business, the price is the price. I don’t haggle, and neither do my customers. But as soon as you get on a car lot we revert to the third world. Strange.
February 11th, 2010 at 8:26 pm
I’d double up the advce to go negotiate the beat deal with each of 15 closest dealers.
And dint pay over invoice. There are a myraid of ways the dealers make $$$ on this (service being one) I would shoot for invoice or below. Heck, I’m negotiating on another Jeep Commander. Have 2 dealers both down 10k off sticker and I’m not done with them yet.
Edmunds.com is your friend. Also, unless your getting one of the sick financing deals – find financig elsewhere. USAA is giving it to me at 4%, why would I risk getting fucked by the dealer for .1%.
BUT, don’t tell them that. They will negotiate a MUCH better rate (manage will) if he thinks he can make it up on back end financing. Go through the game then tell them no, you’ll just take the car.
Make them compete with each other.
Also, USAA and overstocked.com have great online car buying services. Use them, gives you a fantastic place to start negotiating – much better than you might get to otherwise (but it’s only a start) plus it will send a half dozen other dealers after you offering better deals.
February 11th, 2010 at 10:09 pm
Go to your bank and negotiate a line of credit. Go to the dealer and strike the best deal you can, hell go to a bunch of them, Don’t hesitate to play them against each other. Write a check when you’re satisfied. Better yet look for an ’08 or ’09 on it’s second or third oil change from a private seller who’s desperate.
February 11th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
well, since global warming is load of crap, and the weather paterns are swinging back the other way(you know, cold,snow ice etc.) couipled with the fact that I am an outdoorsman, figure yu are too. I say buy a midsized SUV. V6 gets you a good compromise between gas mileage and power, and you can get 4×4, a real blessing when you have this kind of weather. I have 08 jeep with all the bells and whistles and the only thing I would do different If I did it again, is get THE FOUR DOOR. The entry space on the two door is the ONLY down side to the vehicle. It gets great milage, handles wells, 4×4 is AWSOME and unlike the old jeeps, it is not cold and drafty. I have both tops and the new hard tops are 3piece, the front come off in t-tops so you can go topless without taking off the whole top. The tops are also a new material that is much lighter than the old ones, I can take mine off and put it on by my self. Bang for the buck, it is an excellent vehicle for the money and is nearly unstoppable. If you are even thinking about an SUV type vehicle you ae crazy if you dont at least go look at the jeep. BUY MORE AMMO
February 11th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
Some good advice above.
Get educated.
Get smart.
Don’t get raped.
I recommend you read this site:
Chapter 4: Research the dealer’s cost and make your offer.
Find the dealer’s actual cost and offer 5% over that.
The best way to save bucks on a new car is with competing quotes. Don’t just go to one dealer. Get quotes online. Work them off each other.
February 12th, 2010 at 3:03 am
Dude, I believe I was the first on your blog to recommend the G37 to you. That is pretty expensive. Everyone drives a used car – you can’t find a 2009 used with like 10K miles on it for like $25k? Don’t finance the whole thing, put at least half down. If you can’t then you can’t afford the car. Remember this is a massively depreciating purchase. I know it’s sexy, I know it’s irresistible. It’s like a 16 y/o looking at a super model’s rack. But please, get your wife to read these comments and the comments of the other threads on this topic and talk some sense into you. $30k+ for a car is just wayyy too much money, especially in these times and you having two kids. That’s not to say you don’t make good money, it’s just that the car is too expensive. Why pay thousands more than you have to for no reason other than they sweet talk you? Buy used.
February 12th, 2010 at 3:27 am
financing a car is like buying into a mortgage you know is upside down, you’re paying interest on an object that is depreciating like mad. as stated above, pay cash or find a diffferent car. in this economy, if you can’t afford to pay cash, you can’t afford whatever the item is.
February 12th, 2010 at 4:17 am
deadcenter: Agreed. Screw financing. Decide how much money you can afford to pay tomorrow, and buy a car for that amount.
Spend the money budgeted for car payments on firearms.
February 12th, 2010 at 4:18 am
My dad has been in the used car business for years. I never, EVER want a new car, it’s a total waste of money. Watch the Dave Ramsey video the person linked above. Best advice ever.
February 12th, 2010 at 6:35 am
#1 – If these 09 cars don’t sell, the dealer can’t sell them as “NEW” six mos. after their model year ends (in WA, at least). They’ll be on the used car lot this summer for $28K or less.
#2 – If he’s offering you a lower interest rate for the longer term, he’s getting a kickback on the GAP insurance you’ll be made to buy to get that term.
#3A – Wait to reply until next week. Offer $27K for 48mos.
#3b – If he says he can’t do that find a new salesman/dealership
#4 – Isn’t Soyer still working at Toyota? Inter-dealer trades aren’t uncommon. If you’re going to give somebody your money it may as well be a good guy. Fix up a 3day weekend to do some shooting w/Jeff and drive it home.
February 12th, 2010 at 6:44 am
I say offer him 28k. If it’s been sitting for the past year, his motivation to get rid of it will be pretty powerful and he’s not taking a loss at that price.
February 12th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Uncle, if you look at internet prices at several dealerships in a few different areas (around here I check Milwaukee, Chicago, and Minneapolis markets) you’ll find bottom dollar pricing somewhere. Start there, and see what the local market is supporting. I saved $3K off my last car by driving (my trade-in) to Iowa to get it instead of buying locally.
I would never hesitate to buy a Certified Used Honda by flying out to get it sight-unseen, but I don’t know how Nissan’s used cert. program is.
February 12th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
If you’re not in a hurry, note how many cars on the lot are exactly like the one you want. When the number gets to one or two, that’s the time to jump (at a lower price than today).
February 12th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
I agree with the advice that says to research prices on-line through sites like Edmunds and KBB, and also to check multiple dealers and play them against one another. One piece of advice I would add is to negotiate the price BEFORE you let on too much about how much you’re going to put down.
Also agreed that the term of financing should never outlive the warranty on the car, but also factor in depreciation. I won’t go longer than 48 months on a new car, or 36 months on a late-model used one.
Last thing: See if you can get them to throw in the extended FACTORY warranty free or cheap. Don’t accept a third-party extended warranty.
February 12th, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Do not finance a depreciating asset! If you must have a vehicle, figure out how much you can pay for it. Then figure out what you must have—MPG, passenger capacity etc. Find the best fit you can for that money.
Financing vehicles is a wonderful thing–for everyone except the schmo making the payments.