Come and take them
No: The city government of Cedar Falls, IA voted almost unanimously to force citizens to place the keys to their commercial properties in a lock box accessible to city government employees.
27 Responses to “Come and take them”
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June 16th, 2011 at 9:31 am
Does private property mean nothing to them?
June 16th, 2011 at 9:40 am
Their is no private property. All property is leased from the government.
June 16th, 2011 at 10:17 am
So, when’s the next election? Or does it matter?
June 16th, 2011 at 10:48 am
You are missing the opportunity of a lifetime to catch city employees (firemen, police, meter readers, council members and their secretaries, spouses of the mayor’s staff) abusing their positions of authority and entering businesses illicitly. That would be burglary, malfeasance, ethics violations, felony theft, etc. etc. etc. etc.
I say go with the flow, and be sure the remote uplinked videocam is working. Some UV fluorescent dye on the keys in the lockbox might also be fun. So might a camera with a flash attachment at the front door, set up only after business hours. The startled looks on their faces would look great in the newspaper articles about why this was a bad idea.
June 16th, 2011 at 10:51 am
This is part of “flyover country”, where in our imaginations people still remember what freedom means.
Apparently not.
June 16th, 2011 at 11:22 am
While Mikee’s idea has merit, I think it’s far more important to be secure in one’s affairs. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ.
June 16th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
I’ll put a lockbox on the outside of my business with the keys to the door in it about the same time I stop locking the doors to said business at night.
June 16th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
I am a firefighter. My city uses those boxes, called “Knox Boxes.” As far as I know, they are not required, but if the fire department needs to access your business for an emergency (fire alarm sounding, water coming out from under the doors, smoke, etc) and there is no box, we simply force entry. Since commercial doors and windows are expensive, and prying/cutting/breaking them open causes quite a bit of damage, the Knox Boxes are designed to keep the damages and costs to the business owner down.
June 16th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
I tend to agree with Divemedic on this. I would rather they enter my business by using a key than by breaking the door or window. I have more invested in my business than I do in my home. If there’s an alarm, or other call to what is not a private residence, they should be permitted entry without hassle. Home businesses should be exempt from this rule, of course.
They should not be permitted to use said keys for purposes of inspection, fines, taxation, assessment, or any other purpose that the owner does not explicitly approve of. EVER. There should be severe penalties for misuse of the keys, like if you enter without a warrant during a time that is not a legitimate emergency without the permission of the owner, you get charged with breaking and entering and lose your job AND pension.
June 16th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
I see no objection to the city requesting voluntary compliance, as divemedic mentions, but for the city to require them is simply wrong. I would tell the council that I would be working hard to get every yes vote thrown off the council as soon as possible.
June 16th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
There is strict key control in our system. They are kept in a “sword in the stone” box that requires a pin number unique to each employee to obtain a key, and an electronic record is kept for each access of a key. If a key is lost, or misused, termination is guaranteed.
Also, using them illegally subjects the employee to criminal charges. They are only used for emergencies, at all other times, the owner (or his agent) must be present, or we have to get a warrant.
At least in my case, this isn’t as nefarious as the producers of the video want you to think it is. Hyperbole.
June 16th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@divemedic In the event of an emergency, that is what my insurance is for. Break the window, pry the door. Ultimately with this system it is purely on your honor and it is known that eventually people abuse the system.
That doesn’t even begin to bring up the concept of data theft. It adds yet another vector of attack and physical security is the MOST important vector and you’re telling me to have a key attached to the front door. If there’s an emergency break the door or window, I don’t think we’ll actually care. Out side of that though, breaking the door or window will set off alarms and notify others if you’re not supposed to be there.
Yes most facilities have other alarms that will go off, but when accessed through a door most are in a delayed response mode. Paying attention can land you the code to bypass the alarm. You’re asking me to trust the legal system and officers who murder people in cold blood in their own home. Get freaking real.
June 16th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
as Barron Barnett damage in emergency is what I pay the insurance company for every month.
On top of that, doors may be expensive, but security of my property from gov’t intrusion is priceless….
June 16th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
This is consistent with the nominees that Iowa does such a prodigious job of selecting on our behalf.
June 16th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
If it’s voluntary, there’s no problem. Otherwise, not just no, but HELL no. As others have said, emergencies are what insurance is for, and security from the government is just as important as safety from criminals.
June 16th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
So don’t put the key boxes in. I don’t care. It is a lot more fun to break a window or saw through a door anyway.
June 16th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
It’s not so much the damage to the property to get in, it’s that it slows down response time. There’s a Knox box on the outside om my office ( I installed it ). If I remember correctly we get an insurance discount because of it. If they want in and are being sneaky about it, they’ll just pick the damn lock anyways.
June 16th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
I’m trying to understand how avoiding damage to a door in order to get to a FIRE rates the use of Government Force.
Run that by me again?
June 16th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
drivemedic, the system where you are does sound reasonable. Voluntary, automatically logged when used, every user has specific code logged…
But it is not the one proposed here. This one will have all the lock boxes openable by the city`s keys: one key will fit all boxes, every Fire Company (and sergeant or above of Police?) will have at least one key. And mandatory. The video I saw implied, though did not say, that apartment buldings of more than three apartments would be included. One council member said it would not apply to single dwellings, that is, he would not have to have one for his house, and if that had actually been in this he would never have supported it. The part of the meeting I saw yesterday did not mention any type of logging, I would hope that at least that would be like the system you describe rather than manual paperwork.
I think it would be an easier “sell” if voluntary, not decreed. Perhaps with a time spelled out, say five years out, to make it mandatory.
June 16th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
I just reviewed the code, and I was mistaken. All new occupancies in the state of Florida (can’t speak for other states, but since this is NFPA life safety code, it is likely that they are all the same) that are required to have a fire alarm or sprinkler system are required to have the key boxes. Since houses are not required to have fire detection/sprinklers, this code does not apply to homes. Here is how they work:
The Knox Box system is in use all over the country, and works the same way: A property owner puts the keys into the lock box. The lock box is secured with the Fire Department’s key. Every piece of fire apparatus has a key. Inspectors do not, as they are not emergency responders. This key also operates the gates to gated communities. All of these locks are identically keyed and require an access code, either in the form of a PIN or radio activation from dispatch. Single dwellings may also use these boxes, and some do.
Opening the box will activate the “supervisory” alarm of the system and will require that the alarm company notify the police and the property owner.
June 16th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
Divemedic: Requiring their use is evil, and being disgusted at this requirement is not hyperbole.
Voluntary use? Fine.
Mandatory? Get a warrant, Mr. Screw, or fuck off.
June 16th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
John A: I’m not interested in frog boiling solutions.
Just because you run a business from your property does not mean you have less rights than a homeowner. Allowing these infringements is a whopping mistake.
June 16th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
John A: So, the government has no right to require fire sprinklers? Emergency exits?
If you say it doesn’t, then what responsibility does a business owner have towards the people (customers, employees) that he invites onto his property in the course of operating his business and opening that business to the public?
Can he, through a blanket posting of a sign, prohibit the police from entering during business hours? Can he prohibit the fire department from entering, even if there is an after hours fire? Should the police and fire in the above examples require a warrant?
Not picking on you, I just want to know where you stand on these questions.
June 16th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
@divemedic:
Government doesn’t have rights.
“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action” – George Washington
June 16th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
If they are all keyed the same, it wouldn’t be all that hard to steal one and make a key from it’s lock.
June 16th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
They should not be permitted to use said keys for purposes of inspection, fines, taxation, assessment, or any other purpose that the owner does not explicitly approve of. EVER.
BWAHAHAHA! What magic world do YOU live in?
June 17th, 2011 at 7:14 am
Markie Marxist sez: “Ha! Ha! All the keys to the capitalist cookie jars are belong to us! If there’s a riot, we’ll have our government agents open up all the stores for the looters, uh, ‘to protect private property’. Yeah! That’s what we’ll say! Wouldn’t want all those glass windows getting broken, would we? Gotta protect the private sector! Even hold the doors open for the looters too! Ha! Ha!”