Where America Used To Be
Indefinite military detention of anybody the government suspects of being a terrorist. Hope and change.
Remember, I do this to entertain me, not you.
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December 15th, 2011 at 11:03 am
Had this discussion with an Obama supporter:
“What’s really functionally different between him and the guy that preceded him?”
…crickets…
I guess he gets points for bringing home the troops from Iraq, although when you consider the world’s largest “embassy” is still there, “advisers”, bases, etc, and a goodly number of those troops actually are heading for Afghanistan, even on that score he’s not all that different.
December 15th, 2011 at 11:14 am
It’s a good thing all of those troops are coming home…we need them here to detain Americans. Besides, I doubt those terrorists over there have much to do these days with our government doing all of their dirty work for them. They can just sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.
December 15th, 2011 at 11:58 am
And those troops coming home from Iraq are coming home on Dubya’s schedule…so he can’t..well, he will…but shouldn’t take credit for that.
December 15th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Btw…we’re winning.
There were a total of 5 comments out of 72 that were anti-gun. 🙂
December 15th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Oops, above is in wrong thread. Not enough coffee.
December 15th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
Welcome, Komrade, to the new Soviet Union!
December 15th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Here’s a look at how the Senate voted on this:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00214#position
December 15th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
What I find odd in this post, and the responses here and elsewhere, is that the complaints are directed at Obama, as if he wrote and passed this bill. This was a bipartisan bill (the defense authorization bill passed by a vote of 93-7), passed by many of the people conservatives voted for and will vote for again. Hell, the offending section was written by the guy so many of you voted for in the 2008 presidential election!
There was an amendment, sponsored by Democratic Sen. Mark Udall, that would have stripped the Levin/McCain section from the bill, but every GOP Senator (except Rand Paul and Mark Kirk) voted AGAINST the Udall amendment, while just enough Democrats—16 in total—joined the GOP to ensure passage of Levin/McCain.
Obama, for his part, is certainly guilty of allowing this to bill to become law and not vetoing it (read this very good piece by Glenn Greenwald, detailing Obama’s support for indefinite detention: http://www.salon.com/2011/12/15/obama_to_sign_indefinite_detention_bill_into_law/singleton/undefinedsingleton/ ) but don’t let our representatives who created and passed it off the hook just because you want to vilify Obama.
Unfortunately, all this bill did was little more than formally recognize and codify what our government is already doing, because the Bush and Obama administrations have already successfully claimed most of the powers in the bill, and the courts have largely acquiesced.
The government is not very fond of relinquishing power once it has it.
December 15th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Guav, I think president obama should go hang out with candidate obama. That’s pretty much my beef.
December 15th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
I agree completely.
December 15th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
Oh and regarding congress’ votes, I think short of tar and feathers, not much will stop this governmental power grab.
If Bush was the hinge on the door locking up freedom, Obama is the lock.
December 15th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
On the other hand, I always argued that Obama was a centrist, and that conservatives completely exaggerated how liberal he was, and that liberals did too. He’s certainly gone against some of the things he said on the campaign trail, but overall, I’ve not been terribly shocked or surprised by his administration. It’s pretty much what I expected, and I have no buyer’s remorse, given how completely unacceptable I found the alternative to be.
Much of the criticism I’ve seen from conservatives on this seems to be framed in terms of “Look what you fools who voted Obama into office have gotten us into,” but if Obama had lost the election, the guy who wrote the part of this bill that we hate would be president, so I’m guessing we’d still be right where we are in terms of civil liberties, if not somewhere worse.
December 15th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
“If Bush was the hinge on the door locking up freedom, Obama is the lock.”
Yeah, well, that’s why us dirty lefty hippies opposed Bush/Cheney’s power grabs, and we couldn’t understand why Real Muricans didn’t see how dangerous it was, and instead chose to support the administration in everything it did.
I’d always ask them, “Are you still going to support this when Hillary Clinton has this same power?” (as she was the main conservative bogeyman at the time), and I’d just get ::crickets::
December 15th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
“but if Obama had lost the election, the guy who wrote the part of this bill that we hate would be president,”
That is because conservatives let the media and left (but then I repeat myself) pick their candidates for them.
Somehow, Romney is going to be nominated, yet I don’t think I know anyone who is a big fan of his.
December 15th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
Nothing changes. In the previous weakenings of the Posse Commitatus Act, military detention was always a possibility.
All this really means is that if the civil war 2 balloon ever goes up, there will be no quarter and no surrender, but you’d have had to have been a complete fool to have ever believed in a civilized civil war, anyway.
Just more fodder for the Un-Do, if we pause at that point before going to guns…
December 15th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
Guav, Obama was not and is not a “centrist”. However, what he also was not and is not is a serious person. Obama happily stated things in the campaign that were utter nonsense. That’s unimportant. What was important was the sheer number of idiots who believed he was a serious person and voted for the clown.
December 15th, 2011 at 8:18 pm
You’re right SPQR, we should have voted for the Very Serious McCain and the totally un-clownlike Palin. What a joyous adventure we’d be having right now. It’s so shocking that a candidate made promises on the campaign trail that he didn’t fulfill—I totally would never have expected that, it’s quite unusual.
December 16th, 2011 at 11:39 am
Man, Obama ’08 would so totally pwn that warmongering shredder of the Constitution, Obama ’12!