Note to motorcyclists traveling in groups
What is a group of them called? A gang? A congress? I dunno.
Traveling in a group does not make your group one vehicle. The stop sign applies to each of you and I will go on my turn.
42 Responses to “Note to motorcyclists traveling in groups”
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June 19th, 2013 at 9:56 pm
Meh. That’s why we usually use a blocker.
June 19th, 2013 at 10:32 pm
Meh. That’s why we usually use a blocker
Block me and you’ll be on the ground,again.
June 19th, 2013 at 10:37 pm
Blocker? That’s so cute.
June 19th, 2013 at 11:23 pm
A rumble of Harleys, a whine of sportbikes, a lame of Can-Ams.
Since two bikes usually pull up to the light side-by-side I could see them going as one, but the next ones need to wait their turn.
June 20th, 2013 at 12:34 am
Unless they have a patch on their jackets with something like Hell’s Angels or Outlaws. Then that’s a bad idea.
June 20th, 2013 at 1:31 am
Go ahead and take your turn. Can I recommend having that heater ready to go first. I’m just sayin …
June 20th, 2013 at 1:44 am
I feel the same way about rail cars.
June 20th, 2013 at 2:49 am
“I feel the same way about rail cars.”
-lol
June 20th, 2013 at 7:03 am
“Block me and you’ll be on the ground,again.”
I don’t think that would work out well for you.
See, I’ll chance my non moving violation and a ticket that costs me a few bucks. But you’ll be chancing a minimum of an assault charge and likely an encounter with ABATE lawyer at your trial.
June 20th, 2013 at 8:11 am
Ugh, lot of chest thumping in here.
When I took a motorcycle foundation safety class many many years ago, we were taught that large groups of bikes riding together were to go through the intersections together.
The purpose is to prevent 50 seperated bikers from trying to pass a bunch of cars in an attempt to get the group back together. Numerous passing bikes is considered more dangerous than going through the intersection together.
As with everything, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. The use of courteous “blockers” that thank the other waiting vehicles after all bikes are through has been used at our charity-poker run and we have never had an issue (law enforcement has observed this numerous times). I have also seen D-bag biker-club wannabees acting like children and threatening others in trafic. That is not putting a good face on the hobby.
June 20th, 2013 at 8:15 am
re: Tomare Utsu Zo – Chill out, internet threats are worthless and you missed an opportunity to educate others about why bikes do this. Bonus internet points for using the word “heater”.
re: smartass – You would really hit someone on a bike with your car because just you were inconvenienced in traffic? Mature.
June 20th, 2013 at 8:16 am
As a motorcycle rider I’m really ambivalent about this. It saves a lot of hassle if we can keep the group together and all we really want to do is get out on the open road away from as much traffic as possible. That’s why when my group makes a big run, we coordinate with the local police and do our best to minimize our time on non-through streets. When getting together for an informal ride, we try to meet as close to the edge of town as possible. For all interactions with other people I use the following:
Be kind, courteous, discrete, do onto others as you would have others do onto you, and good onto all.
June 20th, 2013 at 8:37 am
Meh too. Give them the ten seconds and feel good about it all day (your good deed). Life is too short to waste sorting out the rules of the road with a bunch of balding, ponytailed, midlife crises with 50% body fat.
And it’s called a donor pool.
June 20th, 2013 at 8:44 am
I’ve been riding bikes for 38+ years. I ride everyday to work that isn’t snowing. I don’t ride in groups, and I don’t like it when they block the road, at intersections or going 5- 10 below the speed limit down the road. I usually refer to them as a funeral precession because that’s what they look like, and they expect everyone to say behind them. BWHAAA. I like seeing how many I can pass at a shot. I go to ride, not to pose on my shiny bike.
Unless you have a badge you have to authority to direct traffic, period. I don’t care what they taught you in your class. If some dumb ass waives you through an intersection or something else that is illegal and you get in an accident who’s fault is it? Its yours, not the dumb ass who thinks he’s a traffic cop.
June 20th, 2013 at 8:46 am
That should be:
Unless you have a badge you DON’T have to authority to direct traffic, period.
June 20th, 2013 at 8:55 am
Brice: well said.
June 20th, 2013 at 10:11 am
Got it. About half the bikers commenting here feel they are above the laws that apply to everyone else. Certainly not when it interferes with your recreational riding.
I’ll bet they are the same ones who scream the loudest that cars need to pay more attention and follow the traffic laws.
Newsflash — it is NOT “courteous” to set up your own unoffical roadblocks, just because you wave and smile afterwards. In fact, it is VERY provocative to illegally block people in traffic, and is generally listed as Indicator #1 “You may be facing a car jacking attempt”.
Got news for you guys — sometimes, people in cars are traveling together in a group, too. Yet, somehow, we manage to relink after being separated by an intersection. (Hint — the cars ahead of the break slow down to just below the average traffic speed, allowing the other to catch up without having to go all Grand Theft Auto.)
You know what happens if a CAR decides to just cut off an intersection to “block” it, and the cops see it?
If you feel the need to set up your own roadblocks, no matter how transient, for the CONVIENIENCE of keeping your group together, you need to do so with prior coordination with the cops. Which, by and large, they will have no problems with if it is a formal parade, funeral procession, or the like. Hell, for those, they’ll even PROVIDE the blockers in many cases.
When car drivers see bikers pulling stuff like this, or weaving between lanes of traffic in a jam, or otherwise ignoring traffic rules applicable to EVERYONE ON THE ROAD, it REALLY encourages tnem to give less and less of a shit about bikers. If you want to be allowed to play on the streets with the rest of the grown ups, you need to follow the grown up rules the rest of us have to.
Which, unfortunately, spills over on the bikers who DO follow the rules, DO practice sane driving habits, and DO practice common courtesy. Because it results in people who aren’t bikers HEAVILY supporting anti-motorcycle laws and encouraging public accpetance of LE hassling of ALL bikers.
June 20th, 2013 at 10:45 am
What Geodkyt said. You’re not special. If you wouldn’t do it while driving a car, you shouldn’t be doing it on a bike either.
June 20th, 2013 at 11:07 am
I feel the same way about funeral processions.
June 20th, 2013 at 11:24 am
LOL at Geodykt, calm down dude, your BP has to be through the roof.
This is just the internet and the sad fact (for you) is; anything you say will never change how other groups of bikers handle this situation. At least now you know why they do it. But you can’t stop it.
June 20th, 2013 at 11:30 am
Jim, thanks. The explanation makes sense. Not a great idea but makes sense.
June 20th, 2013 at 11:42 am
Well, Uncle, at least when they blatantly ignore rule of law (and are allowed to by bigoted, sympathetic sworn officers who want to be riding their motorcycles RFN) they are also paying road taxes, unlike the swarms of retarded obese middle-aged office workers in spandex around here that call themselves “bicyclists.”
June 20th, 2013 at 12:24 pm
Everyone knows fruit comes by the bushel!
Dennis is gonna be all mad at me now.
June 20th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
In my second post, I owned up to the fact that of I were ticketed for impeding the flow of traffic, I’d pay the fine. Logically, I view it no differently than if I exceed the posted speed limits I take a chance at being fined.
I never asked for a get out of jail free card. I never threatened anything in any way (as opposed to some other commenters).
June 20th, 2013 at 2:09 pm
Message received. Motorcycle herds need to travel together for their convenience and anyone else’s convenience (and the actual law) be damned.
June 20th, 2013 at 3:47 pm
I have this thing on the front of my truck. Weighs 350 pounds alone. Made of stamped and welded steel plate. Designed to withstand the pull of an 8000 pound capacity recover winch.
Your skull on the other hand is made of much lesser material.
Betting your life at the intersection that I will stop is a wager you can’t afford to lose. But go ahead. I will drive home with some scratches on the steel. You on the other hand will not.
Cutting out paper dolls at the hospice is a fun activity. Try not to drool on yourself too much.
June 20th, 2013 at 4:34 pm
Oh great. Bikers are going “Critical Mass” too?
Look at this sequence:
anything you say will never change how other groups of bikers handle this situation. At least now you know why they do it. But you can’t stop it.
You would really hit someone on a bike with your car because just you were inconvenienced in traffic? Mature.
First: declare that bikers aren’t open to persuasion, leaving the rest of us only two options: passive submission, or forcing the matter. Then belittle one’s potential motivations for refusing to be a sucker as “anger over inconvenience”.
You could have saved some electrons by merely typing “That’s the way it is. Suck it up.”
I like bikes, and prefer to accommodate bikers. Most of the time I’ve seen larger groups break themselves up into pairs or small bunches of four or six anyway, rather than this “blocker” thing, and that works pretty well. Being willing to accommodate others like this is one of the key forms of social lubrication that makes society work.
But there is no sand that grinds that to a halt faster than the perception that this accommodation is only going one way. Telling people to “suck it up” cements that perception into assumed reality. So long, goodwill — hello, arrogance of entitlement.
Nice work there. I’m sure that while you’re in traction after some resentful motorist didn’t cut you the break you need at a key moment in traffic, you’ll be consoled by the fact that he’s in bigger legal trouble than you.
June 20th, 2013 at 4:48 pm
Can’t resist….
I wouldn’t be able to stop everyone, but I’d snatch the “blockers” and arrest them. In my state, traffic offenses are criminal, and citations are a courtesy. I can and WOULD put the blockers in jail for obstructing traffic per state law. Anyone else I could get for disregarding sign/signal would be a bonus. I follow the law, so I expect YOU to, as well.
June 20th, 2013 at 4:48 pm
Seerak: Not sure what you are trying to say here, anyone who promotes violence against others over this issue is just plain wrong. I called out the poster who did that. If you would like to promote the possible death of a biker over a traffic infraction, I seriously question your mental state.
To continue your thought excercise, say you ran over a dozen bikers today on the way home from work. Do you think that would change how the other umpteen-million of them think? Sure, maybe if enough drivers ran over a couple thousand bikers over the next few weeks,you might start to alter their thought process.
But is it really worth it to try and kill someone because they block an intersection? That is what you are promoting.
(You also have the sequence of my posts backwards, and forgot to include the part that shows I was addressing another poster. I assume these were honest mistakes and not an attempt to alter the context of my posts to benefit whatever point you are trying to make.)
June 20th, 2013 at 5:44 pm
What state is that, Badged One? Not that I don’t believe you, but I am shocked at that level of police power.
I look at this issue with a libertarian spirit. I value human decency over the strict letter of the law, and realize that though we do need some laws, the strict letter of the law is not always the right thing to do. When I first saw the word “blocker”, I wasn’t sure what was meant (because I have never seen it in action). But if it happened to me, I would wait for them to pass and waive back, because it is really not that big a deal to wait, and I can do them a favor and let them stay together. I also wouldn’t cut between a mother and her children just because it’s my turn to walk though the door, no matter how easy it is for them to hook back up inside the building. A drawback to laws, is that sometimes people will take a hard stance and not be decent to each other because the law is on their side.
June 20th, 2013 at 7:19 pm
I am honestly amazed at all the chest-thumping, threats of violence, and huffing & puffing over a stop sign I’m seeing here. My take is that much of this is car drivers not having been in the bikers’ situation. When I’m driving a car, I follow the speed limits, make full & complete stops, and always use my turn signals — when riding in a group, I will bend the laws to stay together. This is not a big “f*ck you” to the laws or other drivers, despite what you might think.
For the car-drivers, yes, you can travel in groups, but what is that? Two, maybe three vehicles? Try keeping 5-10 or more vehicles together in Dallas/Fort Worth traffic. In motorcycle safety classes, they teach you to act and work in a group when riding together. It is safer for everyone on the road.
Personally, I find riding in large groups to be fairly stressful, because of the very things people are talking about here. Often, only the lead rider knows the route or destination. In a car it’s not hard to whip out some GPS or a cell and contact others in your group if you get separated. Virtually no bikes have or use GPS, you can’t exactly make a call while riding, and even if you do pull over and try to call, the person on the other end won’t hear the phone or be able to pick up. You’re stranded solo. You really do have to stay together, and it’s a lot more than simple “convenience.”
Jim and TS are making a lot of sense here. I can see both perspectives on this issue, and whether you like or understand it, motorcycle groups will stay together.
The law applies equally to all, duh, but a bike is not a car. Some people get that, others might not. If you ride, you likely understand. As has been said previously, everyone needs to chill out and be courteous to everyone on the roads.
June 20th, 2013 at 8:55 pm
Essentially this boils down to “traffic school” telling you to break the law as written and that makes it OK?
Honestly I’d rather wait for the herd to clear the intersection than they have some stragglers freaking out to catch up. Assuming the herd is being courteous and not driving far below the speed limit as if they were on bicycles.
That herd is impossible to pass, like the critical mass jerks.
There’s a definite sense of entitlement from the two-wheel set of late. It makes me glad I stopped riding so as to not be associated with it.
June 20th, 2013 at 9:10 pm
I sure see a lot of stupidity sitting atop Harley’s these days. Its usually its own reward.
Motorcyclists have a good point about motorists who fail to look out for them, but in my experience – a fair amount of it first hand, motorcyclists seem to cause three times the accidents that inattentive motorists cause – ABATE propaganda notwithstanding.
June 20th, 2013 at 11:18 pm
Essentially this boils down to “traffic school” telling you to break the law as written and that makes it OK?
Yeah, actually. The law for four-way stops works well for 99.9% of all traffic that passes through it. It doesn’t work well for large groups of motorcycles. So sometimes breaking the law makes more sense than following it, or trying to write convoluted law that attempts to work for 100% of situations.
This is a gun blog, so I’m sure the concept that “right and wrong” and “legal and illegal” do not perfectly overlap has been discussed many times.
June 20th, 2013 at 11:35 pm
I, also, have not encountered “blockers”. But, after reading the vitriol in some of the comments, I think that if I should come across such, I will whip out….my phone, and call the cops.
Obstructing traffic IS illegal in my state.
June 21st, 2013 at 2:57 am
Jesus Christ, what the fuck is wrong with you people.?!
You claim to be sane and responsible individuals who can be trusted with weapons, but you’re all talking shit about murdering each other in cold blood over a goddamn right of way in traffic. Way to be positive examples of the gun culture, retards.
There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument, but they seem to be obscured in a cloud of asshole.
There are some serious pros to grouping up to move in traffic, it increases the odds of being seen, and decreases the odds of “I just didn’t see him, your honor…” complete with closed casket.
On the other side of the coin, it is incredibly annoying to watch a cluster-fuck of 50 bikes straggle through a stop, moving like a pack of drunken chickens.
Most people do -not- know how to ride in formation.
Motorcycles are not bicycles, nor are they cars. They have a group of risks attached to them that are unique to motorcycles, and many people have many ideas of what constitutes ‘safe’
as it stands right now, A pox on both your houses.
disclaimer – 30+ years of riding experience, my current daily driver is a motorcycle.
June 21st, 2013 at 5:13 am
No one has yet described why it may be ok in SOME states to have a group go through a controlled intersection together.
Typically, if you have a group of vehicles travelling together, they can continue to pass thru the intersection regardless of signals, as long as NO GAPS are allowed to occur in the procession. The dummy that falls behind must stop if the signals/signs require it, along with everyone behind him.
This is what makes funeral processions work, although some states add in penalties if you screw around with them.
It’s that solid train of vehicles that is key to this. The use of “blockers” (with or without the red/blue lights) is to get the attention of the brain-dead out there, and are not required.
Also, +1 to Matthew House for his comment.
I rode for 30yrs, until a stroke stopped me.
I’m embarrassed by a lot of the Harley riders these days. “Smell Me” handlebars, and straight pipes on a stock engine. The guys that buy into the bullshit of “loud pipes save lives” are probably the same ones that believe in “Glowbull Warmening”.
June 21st, 2013 at 8:32 am
Also, what Matthew said.
June 21st, 2013 at 11:15 am
Another +1 to Matthew. I’m still shaking my head over all of this. We are talking about stop signs, right? STOP SIGNS. This is a gun blog, but it certainly doesn’t feel like a motorcycle friendly place. The whole time, reading these comments, I’ve been thinking, “Switch motorcycles with guns and it feels like I’m debating the anti-gunners.” So much vitriol and quibbling over 100% adherence to laws. Anyone take a concealed handgun course? I’m assuming you listen to the instructor, who will often say, “Well, I’m not a lawyer, but…” Same thing! The hammered-down letter of the law does not and cannot apply in all cases in a sane world. Blind and ignorant rigidity can be just as bad as willful and malicious flaunting of the laws. So, is it completely foolish to listen to the instructors of “gun school,” even when what they say might not be identical to what is written in that book of legalese? And gee, I bet you all of you stopped shooting after the (take your pick) mass shooting right? Wouldn’t want to be associated with that hobby, or ‘those people.’ As with anything, be it the police, gun owners, motorcyclists, the few bad folks out there ruin it for the rest of us. I’m still amazed at all this thread has sparked.
June 21st, 2013 at 6:26 pm
Thank you for the positive reinforcement.
Something occured to me after I posted the first time.
You folks better -pray- you don’t wind up in an accident anytime soon. “well your honor, the defendant’s internet posting behavior shows…”
And you’re done.
And seriously, this is the same kind of monkey-screeching, poop-flinging behavior we sneer at the anti-gunners about. And yeah, I’m still talking about -both- sides of this argument.
This is like pure gold to them. “see?! See how insanely violent and dangerous gun owners are? See how reckless they drive? Clearly, these people are not responsible enough to own guns. We must have more restrictions on ownership of firearms, for everyone’s safety”
And, based on what you people wrote, I’d have a hard time arguing that you -were- responsible enough to own a gun.
No matter what you’re arguing about, remember. You’re an armed citizen, and as such, there are certain standards to your behavior that you had better meet, or you’ll spoil it for everyone. It sucks, and it’s not fair, but that’s life.
June 21st, 2013 at 11:38 pm
I usually let people over in traffic if they want to get over, irrespective of whether I have the right of way.
It’s seldom an important thing with me.
It annoys me when drivers hang out in the left hand lane going an irresponsible speed without letting a faster car over.
I always let someoe who wants to go faster than I do over so he or she can do so.
As for a group of bikers, if they aren’t wearing a patch, I would call them a covey.
If they are wearing a patch, I would call them (but not to their faces) felons.
June 24th, 2013 at 9:15 pm
So… wearing a patch indicates that I’m a felon. Weird that the FBI missed that.
Generally, I prefer to not be in a large group when riding. Avoiding such isn’t possible in charity runs, funeral processions, or (the most common for me) when my chapter visits one of the children we’re helping. On those occasions, we keep our group together, usually by waiting for a clearing in traffic (to avoid the problems some have voiced).
And seriously, people? The death threats aren’t even cute anymore. At best, they give the antis ammunition