the stuff I haven’t said
On the church shooting, I have only posted information as I got it. The only post I did in which I wasn’t relaying some bit of info I found and was giving my opinion was when I noted why I carry at church. Some, of course, took this to mean that I was blaming victims because they chose not to be armed; or that I live in fear; or that I was saying that if one person had been armed this could have been prevented; or that I’m delusional; or gay. These people are all idiots. But I digress. I suppose it’s because I’m a gun blogger that a few folks expect that or something. They expect it so greatly that, even when it’s not here, they see it.
Anyway, my thoughts on the actual event are that a gun would not have made one lick of difference either way. The lunatic walked in and got off 2.5 shots. His third reportedly hit the ceiling because he was busy getting physically restrained by some brave men and women at the church. He was getting his ass kicked by pacifists.
The only difference another citizen with a gun would have made in this particular case is that instead of going to jail for three hots and a cot, Jim D. Adkisson would be going to the morgue.
The people who subdued him did so quickly and bravely. And hats off to them for that!
July 28th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
He was getting his ass kicked by pacifists.
Much has been made of this line. While humorous it isn’t correct.
The reason there wasn’t a massacre was that these people weren’t pacifists. The greatest self defense weapon is situational awareness. You have to admire the courage of all involved.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
In other news: You go to church? You never struck me as the church-going kind…
July 28th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Hey SU,
saw you made an appearance over at the knoxblab. was just breezing over the thread when i saw your name. “omg no way!” came to mind. you havent posted there in years, right? wow.
i am still around over there, though less nowadays. as you yourself said, its kinda turned into an echo chamber. and i havent been there in a few days on account of the fact that my beloved bass guitar was stolen friday and ive been trying to deal with hunting that down, and my son has been ill all weekend.
in fact, my most recent post over there involved that fact, to which spinetingler decided to make a smartass comment about that. glad he got a laugh out of it. at least a couple of folks were sympathetic.
anyways, was glad to see you around that place, if however briefly. dissenting voices are an ever diminishing capacity around there. you and i might not always agree, but at least we respect each other’s views.
take care,
fluffy
July 28th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
you are right on the money on this. It coudn’t have been prevented because someone in the church had a gun. Absent the brave response of the parishioners, as is usually the case, a gun in the hands of a parishioner would have been invaluable.
Charging a shooter while unarmed is a scary thing, I have done it twice, got shot both times. Won, but damn, I would rather have been able to shoot the bastards. These are brave people and unfortunately, uncommon. All too often everybody is too busy running, hiding, ducking and dodging while the shooter takes as much time as he needs to up his kill ratio. One can’t really blame them either. The disparity of force is a great discourager. Therein lies the value of an armed citizenry, in church and everywhere else. Parity of force gives much better odds of success and survival when confronted with a murderer.
These were truly brave people to be greatly respected.
July 28th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
The wife is a member. I’m faced with the following choice:
a) Stand my ground, refuse to go, spend all day arguing about it.
b) Go and waste an hour.
Fluffy,
It’s good to hear from you. And sadly, the new crew at knoxblab has devolved into sputtering nonsense. that’s unfortunate.
July 28th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
this is just like the NIU shooting, the shooting was so quick that the only thing anyone could have done would have been to respond after it was underway.
but i agree with you on the carrying in church thing, god will protect me once i am in his care, but while i am here on earth, he has made tools available for me to protect myself.
July 28th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Anyway, my thoughts on the actual event are that a gun would not have made one lick of difference either way.
Ah, so you agree with me that gun fucks are talking out of their asses when they say “if only they’d been packing!” Good to know.
Why don’t you condemn the people who argued that guns would have made a difference? Just an idle curiosity, really — I suspect the answer would be something like “they’re not as ugly as you are!” Amirite?
July 28th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Kynn, the people who argued that “guns would have made a difference,” whoever they are, are simply wrong, as many people on the intertubes are every day—they don’t deserve nor require a special “condemnation” just to please you. For you to expect that Uncle should go out of his way to do so is fucking absurd.
July 28th, 2008 at 11:18 pm
“Ah, so you agree with me that gun fucks are talking out of their asses when they say “if only they’d been packing!” Good to know.”-Kynn.
Well a very brave and now dead man may have survived if he had had a gun instead of only his body to protect others. So, no. At least I don’t agree with you. We can’t know that no one would have been killed or that fewer would have been killed, but the odds would have been better.
I don’t care a damn thing about you,one way of the other, with the exception that you excoriate people of whom you have no knowledge over issues of which you know nothing. Ignorance coupled with arrogance is more dangerous to the body politic than cancer is to the body physical.
You are a very dangerous person indeed. At least to a free people or those that would be free.
July 29th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Fortunately, my wife doesn’t make me go with her (and only infrequently goes herself). Every now and again we pop in for a charity event or something.
Still, if I had to go waste an hour every week, I certainly wouldn’t pack, lest I feel the temptation to use it on myself…
July 29th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Hmmm.
@ Kynn
1. Funny how you refuse to allow anybody to debate you on your blog but you have to come over here.
2. I still hold that someone carrying a firearm could have taken him down easier, faster and with less danger.
Keep in mind that the congregation were very fortunate that someone reacted quickly, decisively and chose to sacrifice his life rather than preserve it by running away. Also keep in mind his sacrifice also enabled other people to pile onto the shooter and subdue him. Without that first sacrifice the shooter would’ve bathed that church in blood.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:06 am
Listen up, sparky, you linked to me saying I said that. Hence my original post. I cannot possibly use smaller words to make that point more clear. So, either you get it or you simply never will and are beyond all help.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Goin’ to church is for sinners…guess some of y’all must be too righteous.
“I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”–Jesus Christ
But like “the Preacher” (Clint Eastwood) in “Pale Rider” said when he was encouraged to leave, “there’s still a lot of sinners hereabout” …so we need guns for’em…epecially in church where they’re likely to show up.
Recall too, the church shooting out in Colorado that was stopped DEAD by a woman carrying her gun there in RIGHTEOUS self-defense of herself and many others.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I don’t attend church. I used to do so. But then I got fed up with mistaken idea by most congregations that church was a museum for saints, rather than a hospital for sinners.
Not being a saint, there wasn’t much reason for me to go. I had nothing feel all that superior about, and no tolerance for those who thought they did.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
straightarrow,
I don’t regularly attend a building where the church meets either. Focusing on others who do or don’t is only an aspect of religioisty….which is rampant in and out of church buildings.
However, I have been given”the faith of Jesus Christ”, ( I don’t have any faith, He gave me His) and I am a “saint” according to the Bible definition…which is simply any person who gives up their religion, realizes they are a sinner in need of the Savior and thus receives a full pardon taht He died to make free and the gift of His eternal life.
Thanks LORD, I’ll take that.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
“Ah, so you agree with me that gun fucks are talking out of their asses when they say “if only they’d been packing!” Good to know.”
Kynn: I was one of those who alluded (merely alluded, mind you) that an armed defense might have prevented bloodshed. I alluded to that because in many, many cases it would have exactly correct, as has been played out literally millions of times. You can look up the statistics yourself.
Now that I have been provided with more accurate information on what happened (a rapid bodily response after very few shots) I can say, as did Uncle, that there would have been no time for an armed response because of the braves who subdued the shooter (well, unless one of those close to the shooter had been packing and was quick on the draw).
If that’s being a “gun fuck” then a gun fuck I am, talking out my ass.
Now to the real point; People have the right to be armed for self defense. If you don’t want a gun, don’t buy one. OK? It’s not as if we’re trying to convince the NRA to show up on your street with a van-load of guns and start passing them out to everyone. When you say we gun fucks want to “arm the congregation” that how it sounds.
Now I’ll tell you a little story; My sister and her three year old daughter were brutally murdered in their own home in Santa Rosa, CA in 1977. My sister was stabbed to death in a huge struggle, and her daughter was strangled with a shoestring. Unfortunately, my sister was not strong enough to subdue the attacker, as she did not have a congregation of church goers to help out. She was not armed.
This is just one story of thousands played out all over the world every year. You can argue all you want about the various reasons why you don’t want a gun. Fine. It’s your choice. You take care of your security the way you like. That’s called liberty. I choose to pack a pistol. That too is part of this huge mix of ideas and practices we call liberty. You may think it sucks, but the alternatives to liberty are always far worse.
I’ll end with a question. It was written buy a friend of mine;
Can you demonstrate one time or place, throughout all history, where the average person was made safer by restricting access to handheld weapons?